2014 Fiesta ST Finally Priced

[bronsin]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

What about the car I referred to as "Bronsin's dream car?" () on the "I was going to trade it in..." thread day before yesterday --- The Fiesta 1.0 ---- 3 cylinder turbo , 123 HP , 43 MPG HWY and high 30's CITY. $14,000 base with an extra 1k for that engine choice. The only negative thought I had re you liking it = 'He might think it's too expensive...not cheaper than a base Yaris'.

Interesting car but the turbo probably rules it out for me.

Maybe I can take it off and sell to someone here?

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by bronsin

Interesting car but the turbo probably rules it out for me.

Maybe I can take it off and sell to someone here?

If I had to rank what I thought you might not like about it, price was number one and the turbo was number two. I didn't think you'd care about having as many as 123 horses....that less power (especially if it meant higher MPG ) would be what you would prefer.

[sqcomp]

Perhaps it's me getting older...but 27-29k for a Fiesta?

For 23k I can get a 1972 Plymouth Scamp with a mildly worked over 440 and smoke the hell out of it...put in 3k worth of suspension and here would be no comparing the difference in value.

[bronsin]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

If I had to rank what I thought you might not like about it, price was number one and the turbo was number two. I didn't think you'd care about having as many as 123 horses....that less power (especially if it meant higher MPG ) would be what you would prefer.

I checked out the inventory of 2013 Fiestas at the Ford dealer. These have the 1.6 liter.

None was going for less than $18.5K

I can just imagine what they want for the turbo...

FOR SALE Turbo from Fiesta.... only $8000!

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by bronsin

I checked out the inventory of 2013 Fiestas at the Ford dealer. These have the 1.6 liter.

None was going for less than $18.5K

I can just imagine what they want for the turbo...

FOR SALE Turbo from Fiesta.... only $8000!

The turbo 1.0 liter is only supposed to add 1k to the 14k base, but I don't imagine many dealers will order many without a fair array of options. Also, if gas climbs to previous highs and beyond the 43 HWY MPG of the turbo would likely command a premium, especially with the city rating not much below that.

[bronsin]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

The turbo 1.0 liter is only supposed to add 1k to the 14k base, but I don't imagine many dealers will order many without a fair array of options. Also, if gas climbs to previous highs and beyond the 43 HWY MPG of the turbo would likely command a premium, especially with the city rating not much below that.

I think I saw the base price on the Fiesta is $12.5?

I think neither getting the base price of any Fiesta model nor 43 mpg on the highway is likely.

[detroiter]

I know it's a different type of car but for $21,000 out the door, I can get a brand new Mustang V6 with 300+hp and RWD. No way in hell I'd buy that Fiesta ST for the price they are asking. Typical American car company reaction to building what people want..."We'll build it but overcharge you for what you're getting...".

Hell, I could even get a Scion FRS for near the same price or a Hyundai Genesis Turbo. Sorry Ford but the only people I see buying this car is the American car/FoMoCo leg humpers.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by bronsin

I think I saw the base price on the Fiesta is $12.5?

I think neither getting the base price of any Fiesta model nor 43 mpg on the highway is likely.

Did you see that at the dealership? The blurb from Car and Driver says 14k base, but they could be wrong. I think 43 MPG HWY is possible. I just (like you) wish they were offering that engine without the turbo...too much chance it would effect reliability. Neither you (I assume) nor I would care about 'gutlessness' from lack of a turbo on a 3 cyl 1.0 liter engine, but most USDM buyers who might consider this car probably would care.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by detroiter

FoMoCo leg humpers.

[why?]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

Did you see that at the dealership? The blurb from Car and Driver says 14k base, but they could be wrong. I think 43 MPG HWY is possible. I just (like you) wish they were offering that engine without the turbo...too much chance it would effect reliability. Neither you (I assume) nor I would care about 'gutlessness' from lack of a turbo on a 3 cyl 1.0 liter engine, but most USDM buyers who might consider this car probably would care.

except that if it is both tuned right, low enough boost, and a small enough turbo, the turbo would not only add extra power, but extra gas mileage as well.

Of course, with ford's recent examples, I doubt it is. I it probably just like the other ecoboost engines, high pressure, fake numbers, and a crap job of engineering.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by why?

except that if it is both tuned right, low enough boost, and a small enough turbo, the turbo would not only add extra power, but extra gas mileage as well.

Of course, with ford's recent examples, I doubt it is. I it probably just like the other ecoboost engines, high pressure, fake numbers, and a crap job of engineering.

But would the turbo last as long as the engine? Even with the turbo resulting in better gas mileage, if the turbo gave out before the engine did you'd still have to deal with that. Would the amount saved by the increased fuel economy for the reasons you mentioned more than cover dealing with the turbo having given out before the engine? If it did, would that be worth the hassle? Some might feel it would be. I don't feel that way.

[why?]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

But would the turbo last as long as the engine? Even with the turbo resulting in better gas mileage, if the turbo gave out before the engine did you'd still have to deal with that. Would the amount saved by the increased fuel economy for the reasons you mentioned more than cover dealing with the turbo having given out before the engine? If it did, would that be worth the hassle? Some might feel it would be. I don't feel that way.

A modern turbo tuned correctly simply won't give out. They are now both oil and water cooled, and as long as someone doesn't over boost them they'll be fine.

My first car was a 1986 Saab 9000. It came with a turbo from the factory. I bought it in 1997, after it had been in storage a few years. I drove it right out of high school, my sister drove it, and then we sold it to someone we know. The turbo and the engine is still going strong. While we had to spend a bunch of money fixing everything else.

Basically turbos will last just as long as the engine as long as they are not screwed with by the cars owners. Most turbos are killed by improper tuning and cooling, not by being too old. With all the turbos in so many different cars from the late 80's we would know if turbos were a problem part.

[thebarber]

Sure a yaris is 10k$ less, but factory turbo with warranty? Win.

[BEEF]

Originally Posted by thebarber

Sure a yaris is 10k$ less, but factory turbo with warranty? Win.

This is the advantage I see with either the Focus ST or the Fiesta ST.

I wish Toyota would make a yaris that way. I would think that even 160hp at the crank would be insane (if it had the factory warranty and support).

[why?]

Originally Posted by BEEF

This is the advantage I see with either the Focus ST or the Fiesta ST.

I wish Toyota would make a yaris that way. I would think that even 160hp at the crank would be insane (if it had the factory warranty and support).

Even 130hp with a turbo would rock. We used to have an 88 626 turbo. 1800lbs and 130 hp turbo 4, the car absolutely flew.

[thebarber]

Originally Posted by why?

Even 130hp with a turbo would rock. We used to have an 88 626 turbo. 1800lbs and 130 hp turbo 4, the car absolutely flew.

I like the fiat 500T for that. $18000CAD, factory f/i, and easily tunable to abarth range...

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by why?

tuned correctly

By 'tuned correctly', do you mean not changed from factory specs, or do you mean it in the sense of 'well maintained' ?

[BEEF]

I think he means the actual fuel maps that are put in. Going turbo isn't that hard to do as a lot of people have done it. Bolt on the manifold, run some oil lines, and run some exhaust and intake piping. The hard part is that the computer is not made to run with one so you have to use either a piggy-back engine/fuel controller or a complete stand alone computer system in your car.

The fuel management is the really tricky part and requires dyno tuning to get it right. This can translate into hours on a dyno adjusting trim levels, fuel maps, and A/F ratios so you don't blow the side out of your engine and so you get the most power out of a given PSI.

There are no complete turbo kits out there as each car reacts somewhat differently to a given setup. If there were a kit, it would probably be way too conservative for the price (like the supercharger kit which adds around 25hp for $4000).

I don't own a turbo car but have heard many stories of what it takes to do a turbo right.