Clutch shudder when setting off in 1st gear - Page 3 - Toyota Yaris Forums

BuildCode · 10-15-2009, 08:20 PM

I know the reverse shudder you guys are talking about, but this is totally different :)

I'm not sure how to better describe it, but I haven't had it happen at all now that I learned how to drive Yaris-Stick-Shift®, It's re-assuring to see so many people notice this at least sometimes!

Wattz · 10-22-2009, 10:27 PM

Clutches are designed with slippage in mind. If that is not built into the car then the designers weren't thinking far enough ahead.

Dumping the clutch is a shock to the rest of the drive train. The initial (breakaway) torque is much higher and stresses the components down the line. When initial torque is low (ie. when you feather the clutch) the stress on the passive drive train components is much lower.

You should really be trying to make your ride as smooth as possible, since that is what modern passenger vehicles are designed for. That means feathering the clutch into 1st, probably 2nd, and also probably 3rd. 4th and 5th gears tend to be at such a high ratio (>1) that they don't put much load on the engine.

All that aside, my 3rd gear requires a bit more force to shift into than all of the other gears (except reverse.) 1, 2, 4, and 5 pretty much slide right in, but 3rd requires more of a push to put it there. I bought the car used, so I'm hoping that it's just a quirk and not something that the previous owner did.

*tomato* · 10-23-2009, 12:17 AM

Hey, Wattz, welcome to the forum!!

I bought mine used, too, with 55K miles; 2d, 3rd, 4th and 5th are PERFECT (knock on wood). First is a pain, real stiff, especially first thing in the morning.

Here is an article on clutch control in Wikipedia, in case anyone is interested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clutch_control

fastscutr · 11-12-2009, 07:49 PM

I had the same clutch shutter develop at around 17k miles. Dealer "couldn't reproduce the issue". 20k miles, shutter went away, turned into slippage when under throttle alone. Brought it into the dealer ready for a big battle (they were much better about it this time around). Turns out there is a faulty seal in the tranny which leaks oil into the bell housing - clutch and flywheel destroyed. Toyota knows about this issue, the replacement seal is a different one (and requires tranny to be pulled apart to replace). Clutch shuttering is not normal, bring your car in and make them fix it. I just hope the new seal holds up, its almost a $2k repair bill at the dealership if out of warranty

BuildCode · 11-12-2009, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastscutr

I had the same clutch shutter develop at around 17k miles. Dealer "couldn't reproduce the issue". 20k miles, shutter went away, turned into slippage when under throttle alone. Brought it into the dealer ready for a big battle (they were much better about it this time around). Turns out there is a faulty seal in the tranny which leaks oil into the bell housing - clutch and flywheel destroyed. Toyota knows about this issue, the replacement seal is a different one (and requires tranny to be pulled apart to replace). Clutch shuttering is not normal, bring your car in and make them fix it. I just hope the new seal holds up, its almost a $2k repair bill at the dealership if out of warranty

Wow interesting. I will keep that in mind if it shudders any more. I have less than 4,000 miles on my Yaris, and the extended warranty, so for now I'm safe

Thank you for the heads up

toast · 11-12-2009, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastscutr

I had the same clutch shutter develop at around 17k miles. Dealer "couldn't reproduce the issue". 20k miles, shutter went away, turned into slippage when under throttle alone. Brought it into the dealer ready for a big battle (they were much better about it this time around). Turns out there is a faulty seal in the tranny which leaks oil into the bell housing - clutch and flywheel destroyed. Toyota knows about this issue, the replacement seal is a different one (and requires tranny to be pulled apart to replace). Clutch shuttering is not normal, bring your car in and make them fix it. I just hope the new seal holds up, its almost a $2k repair bill at the dealership if out of warranty

This is interesting. Were you also noticing tranny fluid leak or not?

fastscutr · 11-13-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toast

This is interesting. Were you also noticing tranny fluid leak or not?

nope, it seemed to be isolated in the bell housing - unfortunately means dopping the tranny to check. At first I thought it was just being difficult because of the varying throttle response, but then realized it was all clutch. The service manager had seen so few manuals, he was unaware of the issue. He heard about it after contacting some regional rep sorta person guy.

When I got the car back, it felt more solid than when I first bought the car. New clutch engagement point was right at the floor, seemed a little weird, but felt like all the power was getting to the wheels. Now, a few weeks later, the engagement point is quite a bit higher and feels like a more "normal" engagement point. Not sure if this shift is normal break in for a new clutch or if its a bad sign of things to come. I sure hope it's the former.

ooon look, a vomit emoticon, neaT

EDIT: Forgot to mention, this was a definite clutch shudder with throttle applied, not the shaking one feels when bogging the engine down by not providing enough throttle

BuildCode · 11-13-2009, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastscutr

EDIT: Forgot to mention, this was a definite clutch shudder with throttle applied, not the shaking one feels when bogging the engine down by not providing enough throttle

Yep, exactly, this is what I think I had a hard time explaining in this thread lol, you know what I'm talking about!

2009BBPliftback · 11-14-2009, 04:25 AM

Just give it the full beans it won't shudder!

SilverGlow · 11-14-2009, 08:59 PM

Burnt clutch, warped pressure plate....this studdering can happen....often caused by new drivers of manual trannys, or anyone that does not know how to shift properly.

2009BBPliftback · 11-14-2009, 09:05 PM

I've never had any issues with any of the 3 manual transmission toyota's I've owned my 87 mr2 is still good. I put 65k on my first gen xB and 6k on my yaris. They all have performed well without incident.

fastscutr · 11-16-2009, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2009BBPliftback

Just give it the full beans it won't shudder!

agreed, nice complete slippage, shudder requires it to grip a little

Zaphod · 11-16-2009, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuildCode

I know the reverse shudder you guys are talking about, but this is totally different :)

I'm not sure how to better describe it, but I haven't had it happen at all now that I learned how to drive Yaris-Stick-Shift®, It's re-assuring to see so many people notice this at least sometimes!

LoL ... my experience as well.

BuildCode · 12-23-2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thirty-Nine

FYI, I will be bringing my Yaris in for this on Monday, leaving it, and having the dealer look at it on Tuesday. Let's hope they can fix it, and don't just tell me its A) my fault or B) my mods.

Let us know what they say. As a follow up, I've gotten on my Yaris pretty good a few times (in addition to normal driving), the shudder is most certainly gone! I really think it had something to do with clutch break in, and now at 5,000 miles it's long broken in.

woof · 12-24-2009, 02:30 PM

The clutch chatter in my Yaris has gotten to be a real issue. So many of you have reported it that you should take a clue: defective design! My xB1 did not have this bad of a problem.

Here's what I think:

The Yaris is geared taller than my xB so it doesn't have the same mechanical advantage when pulling the car off the line.

The Yaris fly-by-wire ECU was designed to sip as little fuel as possible. Makes it easier to kill, especially with the dead feel of the clutch and throttle.

My clutch chatter just got worse over time and my dealer will not recognize it as a problem which tells me it's an "unknown" problem. (Nothing official.)

Lucas13 · 12-26-2009, 02:25 AM

Sometimes happens to me but only when it’s cold, and if I release the clutch too quick I get the shudder in reverse is even trickier, but when the engine is warm it doesn't happen to me, I try to drive it softly while it warms up and it happens much less

I’ve driven all my life stick, this where my cars in the past and I experienced it in all of them

2007 Yaris LB (current)

2003 Nissan 350Z

2005 Scion TC

2001 Daewoo Lanos Sport

1989 Honda Accord 2 DR

1996 Renault Twingo

For the Yaris and The Scion TC I had to re adjust to the clutch. It took me like a month to feel comfortable with the clutch.

Is also good to mention that this feeling sometimes can be confused with a flywheel that needs must be resurfaced or replaced, this can happen due to exesive heat when clutch is not used properly or abused.

fastscutr · 01-11-2010, 04:36 PM

clutch is now starting to slip for me again after about 3k miles since last replaced under warrantee. Occasionally getting locked out of 5th (don't even feel the shift gate when that happens). Like the other time, dealer won't do anything till it gets real bad and destroys the flywheel... It is still under warranty, but no longer fits my needs as reliable transportation - think its time for a new car... (2010 Subaru WRX :D )
Can't believe I have a British car that has proven to be more reliable (powered by Toyota engine/tranny though) ;P
I wish you all the best of luck in getting a final long term solution to this problem

ddongbap · 01-11-2010, 05:05 PM

So I installed the TRD roll stopper mount. Shudder went away.

10-15-2009, 08:20 PM	#37
BuildCode View User's Garage Drives: Black 5-Spd Sedan S Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 81	I know the reverse shudder you guys are talking about, but this is totally different :) I'm not sure how to better describe it, but I haven't had it happen at all now that I learned how to drive Yaris-Stick-Shift®, It's re-assuring to see so many people notice this at least sometimes! __________________

10-23-2009, 12:17 AM	#39
tomato Super Moderator View User's Garage Drives: Yaris 2DR LB 07, MT, Abs. Red Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 5,155	Hey, Wattz, welcome to the forum!! I bought mine used, too, with 55K miles; 2d, 3rd, 4th and 5th are PERFECT (knock on wood). First is a pain, real stiff, especially first thing in the morning. Here is an article on clutch control in Wikipedia, in case anyone is interested. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clutch_control __________________ Follow Bamboo the YarisWorld Traveler here

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10-22-2009, 10:27 PM	#38
Wattz Drives: 2008 Yaris Hatch Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 36	Clutches are designed with slippage in mind. If that is not built into the car then the designers weren't thinking far enough ahead. Dumping the clutch is a shock to the rest of the drive train. The initial (breakaway) torque is much higher and stresses the components down the line. When initial torque is low (ie. when you feather the clutch) the stress on the passive drive train components is much lower. You should really be trying to make your ride as smooth as possible, since that is what modern passenger vehicles are designed for. That means feathering the clutch into 1st, probably 2nd, and also probably 3rd. 4th and 5th gears tend to be at such a high ratio (>1) that they don't put much load on the engine. All that aside, my 3rd gear requires a bit more force to shift into than all of the other gears (except reverse.) 1, 2, 4, and 5 pretty much slide right in, but 3rd requires more of a push to put it there. I bought the car used, so I'm hoping that it's just a quirk and not something that the previous owner did.

11-12-2009, 07:49 PM	#40
fastscutr Drives: 07 Yaris Hatch, Manual Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: socal Posts: 4	I had the same clutch shutter develop at around 17k miles. Dealer "couldn't reproduce the issue". 20k miles, shutter went away, turned into slippage when under throttle alone. Brought it into the dealer ready for a big battle (they were much better about it this time around). Turns out there is a faulty seal in the tranny which leaks oil into the bell housing - clutch and flywheel destroyed. Toyota knows about this issue, the replacement seal is a different one (and requires tranny to be pulled apart to replace). Clutch shuttering is not normal, bring your car in and make them fix it. I just hope the new seal holds up, its almost a $2k repair bill at the dealership if out of warranty

11-14-2009, 04:25 AM	#45
2009BBPliftback Drives: 2009 Yaris LB in Blazing blue Join Date: May 2009 Location: Western PA (Franklin) Posts: 237	Just give it the full beans it won't shudder!

11-14-2009, 08:59 PM	#46
SilverGlow Banned Drives: 2007 Yaris Hatchback Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Southern California Posts: 189	Burnt clutch, warped pressure plate....this studdering can happen....often caused by new drivers of manual trannys, or anyone that does not know how to shift properly.

11-14-2009, 09:05 PM	#47
2009BBPliftback Drives: 2009 Yaris LB in Blazing blue Join Date: May 2009 Location: Western PA (Franklin) Posts: 237	I've never had any issues with any of the 3 manual transmission toyota's I've owned my 87 mr2 is still good. I put 65k on my first gen xB and 6k on my yaris. They all have performed well without incident.

12-24-2009, 02:30 PM	#51
woof Drives: Yaris 3dr Hatch/Black Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Deep South Posts: 114	The clutch chatter in my Yaris has gotten to be a real issue. So many of you have reported it that you should take a clue: defective design! My xB1 did not have this bad of a problem. Here's what I think: The Yaris is geared taller than my xB so it doesn't have the same mechanical advantage when pulling the car off the line. The Yaris fly-by-wire ECU was designed to sip as little fuel as possible. Makes it easier to kill, especially with the dead feel of the clutch and throttle. My clutch chatter just got worse over time and my dealer will not recognize it as a problem which tells me it's an "unknown" problem. (Nothing official.)

12-26-2009, 02:25 AM	#52
Lucas13 Drives: 07 Yaris LB Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 177	Sometimes happens to me but only when it’s cold, and if I release the clutch too quick I get the shudder in reverse is even trickier, but when the engine is warm it doesn't happen to me, I try to drive it softly while it warms up and it happens much less I’ve driven all my life stick, this where my cars in the past and I experienced it in all of them 2007 Yaris LB (current) 2003 Nissan 350Z 2005 Scion TC 2001 Daewoo Lanos Sport 1989 Honda Accord 2 DR 1996 Renault Twingo For the Yaris and The Scion TC I had to re adjust to the clutch. It took me like a month to feel comfortable with the clutch. Is also good to mention that this feeling sometimes can be confused with a flywheel that needs must be resurfaced or replaced, this can happen due to exesive heat when clutch is not used properly or abused.

01-11-2010, 04:36 PM	#53
fastscutr Drives: 07 Yaris Hatch, Manual Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: socal Posts: 4	clutch is now starting to slip for me again after about 3k miles since last replaced under warrantee. Occasionally getting locked out of 5th (don't even feel the shift gate when that happens). Like the other time, dealer won't do anything till it gets real bad and destroys the flywheel... It is still under warranty, but no longer fits my needs as reliable transportation - think its time for a new car... (2010 Subaru WRX :D ) Can't believe I have a British car that has proven to be more reliable (powered by Toyota engine/tranny though) ;P I wish you all the best of luck in getting a final long term solution to this problem

01-11-2010, 05:05 PM	#54
ddongbap Banned Drives: yw calls me douche and racist. Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: hay Posts: 2,183	So I installed the TRD roll stopper mount. Shudder went away.