Which R-comps for Auto-X?

[SilverBack]

So I've been obsessively looking at these 3 in 205/50/15 for a month until my tax refund comes in

1. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....del=g-Force+R1

2. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....r&tireModel=A6

3. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....del=ADVAN+A048

My budget is about $200/tire. What do you think? Other suggestions? A soft tire that can last at least 6 runs is optimal. Any serious advice is appreciated

[Loren]

Three different tires for three different purposes.

The R1 is an old school track tire. It's not bad for track use, and decent for autocross use, but there are definitely cheaper and longer lasting track tires out there. (http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda...t/61-0070.html) And there are definitely way better autocross tires out there if you're looking for ultimate grip.

The Hoosier is the ultimate autocross tire. Grippier than anything, works okay cold and heats up really fast. If you've got the skills and want the edge over your competition, this is the tire. They don't last very long, though.

The Advan is a good long-lasting "better than a street tire" tire. Not on par with the Hoosier, but good. The R888 that I linked above is similar, and cheaper.

You left out the Kumho autox tires, which rank in between the R1 and the Hoosiers. They generally last a long longer than the other two, are grippier than the R1, and have a more modern carcass design.

When you say "last at least 6 runs", I hope you mean "at least 6 events", which any of them should do, even the Hoosiers... though the Hoosiers might be near gone at that point. Also depends on how many runs you get at each event, how long the runs are, and what kind of surface you run on. Not to mention proper alignment, proper inflation, and not doing anything dumb like flat-spotting them.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by SilverBack

So I've been obsessively looking at these 3 in 205/50/15 for a month until my tax refund comes in

1. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....del=g-Force+R1

2. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....r&tireModel=A6

3. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....del=ADVAN+A048

My budget is about $200/tire. What do you think? Other suggestions? A soft tire that can last at least 6 runs is optimal. Any serious advice is appreciated

None of the above... The R1 is a great tire, we have used them for autox testing (various cars head to head on matching tires so there was one less variable, and we wanted a tire that did not fade) they are great tires but not real quick for autox - they just don't heat up quick enough. We run the R1 on our SSC Nissan Sentra (road racing), 3100lbs, no -camber, and we can not kill these tires off, no matter how hard you push they take it. The R1 won the SCCA Club Racing Runoffs in Touring 3 (Honda S2000) and SSC (Acura Integra) in 2009, and SSB (Civic Si) in 2008. Great road race tire.

The A6 is a really fast tire for autox. But if you have a car with little to no -camber you can use up a pair of fronts in as little as 18 runs. Most of the Mini drivers will flip the tires on the wheels at 15 runs so they can stretch the tires life to 30 runs. If you are going to run in Street Prepared or Street Mod, where you can build a proper suspension you can make these tires last, but a stock class fwd car with little camber will murder them.

The A048 is very much like the Toyo R888, RA1, Pilot Sport Cup and other "track day tires". They all last a long time, but they are slow. Look at any race series, the only time these tires win is when they are the spec tire. They are not fast. They last a long time, but wont get it done. For autox they are one step above a steet tire.

Best bang for the buck, the Kumho V710. Even with the "hot" A6 around, I won four strait SCCA autox natl championships on the V710. The V710 will get double the runs of an A6, and the difference in time is so small you wont need it unless you are going to natls - and even then, if you are driving good enough you won't need the A6 at all.
Going back to the camber challenged Mini, the V710 is a 60 run tire VS 30 for the A6. On our RX-8 we would give the tires away after we had a 100 runs on them, they were not as fast anymore, but still good for practice.

[cali yaris]

choice may also be determined by wheel choice. Kumho doesn't have what I want for a 13x9 wheel, but Hoosier does in the A6.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

choice may also be determined by wheel choice. Kumho doesn't have what I want for a 13x9 wheel, but Hoosier does in the A6.

And that is often what gives Hoosier the "edge" over the rest... They will make sizes that the bigger guys wont bother with.

[SilverBack]

Good posts. I decided that since I only run Auto-X once a month just for fun ATM, it looks like I can go for Hoosier without tearing a hole in the wallet. As for when the day comes when I finally run for points, the Kumho's will definitely be my first choice. And I guess the R1's will have to wait til I'm confident enough to move up to the track (fingers crossed for next year). Thanks for the info guys!

[kngrsll]

if you are only doing autox just for fun, why do you wanna step up to slicks? unless you are gunning for regional or local championships, i think slicks are kinda silly. thats ALOT of money for 10-20 mins of play time. what class are you running? I think the most logical class for the yaris is ST really. Then you can buy wheels and tires you and drive around on all the time.

[SilverBack]

I don't mind using slicks at first. It's gonna be the best deciding factor for me if I should run them just for fun or for points (trial-and-error test). Right now I'm in HS and later today I'll be doing research on the highest class I can move up to in my daily driver within my skin-tight budget. I'll keep ST in mind though as the next possibility, but some of us here have successfully ran in CST so that just might be the top for the Yaris. As for tires and wheels, I'll definitely be running my stock alloys and tires for daily use, and the comps will be mounted on the lightest rims I can find within budget, and those will hibernate in my garage (or other storage space if I have no other choice) between events.

[Loren]

Very important that you understand that the grippier a rubber compound is, the quicker it ages. You're fresh Hoosiers, even if you only autox infrequently and they have half tread left, will be nearly useless in a year. Unless you keep the tires bagged and stored in a cool dark place, they will harden to the point that they're no better than an all-season street tire.

For "casual" use, I'd recommend the R888. They won't have the Hoosier grip, but they'll last a lot longer and be more consistent for a longer period, even in the "occasional use" environment.

[kngrsll]

what exactly is your budget??

for ST competition- wheels, tires, shocks, springs, and a rear sway bar will be: $4-500 for 15x7's, 85x4 for street tires, 150 for a rear sway bar, 200 for springs, 350 for shocks and you can do fairly well in ST. thats under $1500.

for hoosiers and light weight wheels, you are looking at nearly the same! $500 for light cheap wheels and $800 for tires. for a little more, you can have the suspension mods and drive on your autox set up everyday (which is still more tame than alot of mid range sports cars)

im not trying to argue, just providing an alternative.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by SilverBack

I don't mind using slicks at first. It's gonna be the best deciding factor for me if I should run them just for fun or for points (trial-and-error test). Right now I'm in HS and later today I'll be doing research on the highest class I can move up to in my daily driver within my skin-tight budget. I'll keep ST in mind though as the next possibility, but some of us here have successfully ran in CST so that just might be the top for the Yaris. As for tires and wheels, I'll definitely be running my stock alloys and tires for daily use, and the comps will be mounted on the lightest rims I can find within budget, and those will hibernate in my garage (or other storage space if I have no other choice) between events.

HS... Novice + no negative camber + FWD = fail with the Hoosier. They will not last the season, you will burn the outside edgo off of them in a matter of a few events.

Get the V710. It is more durable and cost less. Plus you can go right from the autox to the track with the V710 - we have them on the ITA Miata we built.

The tires we are using on Sunday to test the Yaris are a set of 205-50-15 V710s from that Miata. They have four road races on them - not track days with easy laps, full out 20 lap races - as well as a full season of autox.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by Loren

For "casual" use, I'd recommend the R888. They won't have the Hoosier grip, but they'll last a lot longer and be more consistent for a longer period, even in the "occasional use" environment.

That tire is such a turd that both SCCA and NASA have gone back to the RA1 for the spec Toyo classes (Spec Miata etc) due to member input

[LtNoogie]

Try the Kuhm Ectsa XS for one season. If you drive like me, you will need a couple of seasons more experience before you get the benefit of R comps. If you don't like them after a couple of sessions, I am sure there are YW members who will buy them off of you. I might need a replacement set by then.

[Loren]

Originally Posted by Jason@SportsCar

That tire is such a turd that both SCCA and NASA have gone back to the RA1 for the spec Toyo classes (Spec Miata etc) due to member input

I thought they phased out the RA1. Good tire. Great tire. If you can get RA1's... do.

[SilverBack]

Originally Posted by Loren

Very important that you understand that the grippier a rubber compound is, the quicker it ages. You're fresh Hoosiers, even if you only autox infrequently and they have half tread left, will be nearly useless in a year. Unless you keep the tires bagged and stored in a cool dark place, they will harden to the point that they're no better than an all-season street tire.

For "casual" use, I'd recommend the R888. They won't have the Hoosier grip, but they'll last a lot longer and be more consistent for a longer period, even in the "occasional use" environment.

That's what I was gonna ask about next. Thanks for reminding about storage bags. I wasn't sure if they were necessary, or if Tire Rack was just looking to score an extra buck from customers.

I'll add the R888's and RA1's (if I can still find a set) to list of tires to research also. So far I'm liking the RA1 and V710 equally...

[justjesus]

Good input, gentlemen!
And good post, Silver. I was actually going to ask the same question, as I was considering the R1s (due to cost) over the A6, and V710s. But from what I researched, I was leaning toward the V710s. For us newbies, that's a better deal.
NOW, as for competing for points, especially in HS, we need to talk. I'm already moving into CST myself, for now, but MAY venture back into HS. We'll talk and I'll tell you why.

on a somewhat similar note, how are the Advan AD08s? There's a set for sale at 350$US.

[mojoyaris]

Too bad you guys can't run the tires that come from Japan (not Dot rated). There are some great compounds there that can be used (in Japan and Okinawa), but not in the US.
Toyo has a great set of R888's that are much stickier than the R888's or RA1's in the US.

I figure for the budget racer using a Yaris for auto X, You may not win against some of those faster cars out there. Not for FTD anyways. I would go with the V710 because of the cost factor and that they last longer. If however you want a longer lasting tire than that go with a 100 Treadwear rated tire like the R888's or a Nitto NT-01. They're affordable, last a long time and you can use them for both track and solo 1/2 events.

I don't know of many Yaris racers out there with a special tire expense account. Not unless you get sponsored by one of the manufactures.

[SilverBack]

Oh that's right I forgot about NT's. Geez too many tires too choose from already lol

Jesus. PM me. I'm in and out of the house today so I'll check when I can