2010 brake failure - unintended acceleration

[Steveh27]

Not sure how to list this problem. I hadn't driven my car in 1 1/2 days & we've got bitter cold temps, 9 last night 16 today. Leaving to run some errands I went 100' and came to my first stop sign going only 15 mph. The front brakes started grinding and the car continued accelerating & didn't want to stop! Uh oh. Thinking about the headlines for the other Toyota models. I went to the next stop & the same thing happened. Then it didn't happen again until 3 miles later when it happened twice more. Hasn't happened since. I'm thinking it was due to the frigid cold. My car has only 7200 miles on it.

Going to drive on the freeway in 2 hours for the first time since this happened. If it happens again I'll call a dealer 8 miles away.

[SailDesign]

Wearing wide boots/shoes?
Are you SURE you didn't have part of your foot on the gas pedal, and the ABS was also kicked in? I'm not saying I doubt, but there are a lot of things that would give you that feeling. The ABS feels like someone is sand-papering your foot, and the lack of immediate braking can feel like acceleration (since you are expecting to slow down...)
Let us know of any further progress, would you? I've driven my '09 in single-digit temps with no problems.

[Steveh27]

My shoes were not the problem. I did just call the dealer & he thought it was the ABS. I hope so, but that would be very scary as it didn't stop me & the grinding noise was unexpected. It was the first time I drove this on snow/ice. I'm 60 and have a lot of experience driving vans & suvs in the winter. This was different then anything experienced before.

[Flipper_1938]

!

[Yaristeve]

Originally Posted by SailDesign

.... and the ABS was also kicked in?... ...The ABS feels like someone is sand-papering your foot, and the lack of immediate braking can feel like acceleration (since you are expecting to slow down...)

I have a 2004 IS300 and this is the exact sensation I get when the ABS (prematurely, in my opinion) kicks in. When I am braking hard at the threshold (or beyond threshold according to my car's ABS sensors), the brake pedal gives a buzzing/grinding sensation and the front end picks up and the car feels like it is accelerating because, as SailDesign says, you're expecting to be slowing down. If I were OP, I would test the ABS in an empty parking lot and see if you can intentionally re-create the condition.

Frankly, I think Toyota's ABS programming is overly conservative (i.e., kicks in too early)...

[SailDesign]

Originally Posted by Yaristeve

<snip>
Frankly, I think Toyota's ABS programming is overly conservative (i.e., kicks in too early)...

Exactly - much too early. I'll be curious to see how it behaves with snow tires.

[why?]

Originally Posted by Steveh27

Not sure how to list this problem. I hadn't driven my car in 1 1/2 days & we've got bitter cold temps, 9 last night 16 today. Leaving to run some errands I went 100' and came to my first stop sign going only 15 mph. The front brakes started grinding and the car continued accelerating & didn't want to stop! Uh oh. Thinking about the headlines for the other Toyota models. I went to the next stop & the same thing happened. Then it didn't happen again until 3 miles later when it happened twice more. Hasn't happened since. I'm thinking it was due to the frigid cold. My car has only 7200 miles on it.

Going to drive on the freeway in 2 hours for the first time since this happened. If it happens again I'll call a dealer 8 miles away.

What they've said above. I'm betting you aren't that familiar with what abs feels like. it is a really weird feeling, but the car is slowing down.

Originally Posted by Flipper_1938

That is exactly how my 2010 sedan acted in the snow a couple of days ago. I am liking my Yaris less and less. Toyota has gone to hell in a handbasket in my opinion. My 2001 Echo was a great car, much better than this POS.

you're just clueless. Thinking a 10 year old car could possible be better than a brand new one is pretty much the most clueless thing a person can possibly believe. Learn how abs works, use your brain a little, and realize how things work.

[Flipper_1938]

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[echaru]

I drove my 2010 Yaris in snow yesterday and today. I didn't see anything out of ordinary. The handling in the snow was better than average, in my opinion.

[Betrivent]

The ABS is very touchy even with snow tires.

[auxmike]

I don't have ABS. One less hassle in my life behind the wheel

[Yaris240]

I just experienced the same pusating experience with my 2010 Yaris hatchback today trying to stop over a patch of ice and snow. My 2001 Mercedes C240 does the exact same thing. The ABS pulses the brakes but the all-season tires are not gripping the ice or smow. I think a good set of winter tires would solve this problem.
I am surprised a previous poster is so quick to refer to his 2010 Yaris and Toyota in general as a POS because of this problem. Americans nowadays are so quick to use harsh words. Even my Generation X and Y co-workers do not know such a thing as respect and civility in the workplace or on the raodway.

[ECHOKnight2000]

Obviously every carmaker calibrates ABS differently. And price point comes with that ie. Toyota VS. Lexus (usually).

Also people don't consider the physics of it. From my limited experience with ABS (not my car but a previous Corolla my parents had), the harder you press from higher speeds it will really pulsate. Which is a give-in cause you are stopping from higher speeds hence higher percentage of wheel lock-up.

And like most electric nannies, they can't defy the laws of physics as much as many would like to think. Even carmakers. Marketing, gotta love it. I hear some people don't like traction control and stability control cause it cuts off the power too much or holds back, so if they are out of control or slipping they can't get safely out of a situation or intersection. or out of the way of a car whatever the situation. No thank you.

[Yaristeve]

Originally Posted by ECHOKnight2000

Obviously every carmaker calibrates ABS differently. And price point comes with that ie. Toyota VS. Lexus (usually).

I'm not sure if you might have misunderstood my example. I should have been more clear. I hate ABS. Threshold braking requires a little slipping of the tires. Unfortunately, Toyota apparently calibrates their ABS (at least on my IS300) so that it interprets ANY slipping as impending lockup. Flipper_1938 is correct, oversensitive ABS can make stopping distances longer; it did when the ABS kicked in on my IS300. I had it perfectly balanced; tires were humming nicely as the tires were on the verge of skidding and locking up. Suddenly, the ABS kicked in, the brake pedal started buzzing and I suddenly felt the front end lift up. It felt like I was just coasting, compared to the instant before the brakes were cycled by the ABS computer when I was pulling hard on the seat belts. But I agree with Yaris240, it is unfair to call it a POS system; this is what Toyota believes the general American public wants and needs so they will calibrate the system accordingly to avoid lawsuits. As for price points, I suspect Toyota will not install a totally inferior system for something as critical as brakes. Plus, the ABS in my IS is from 2000. My guess is the 2010 Yaris ABS is at least equal to the IS300 system.

Originally Posted by ECHOKnight2000

And like most electric nannies, they can't defy the laws of physics as much as many would like to think. Even carmakers. Marketing, gotta love it. I hear some people don't like traction control and stability control cause it cuts off the power too much or holds back, so if they are out of control or slipping they can't get safely out of a situation or intersection. or out of the way of a car whatever the situation. No thank you.

I dislike traction control as well. It is a really odd/terrible feeling to be going around a corner (in my IS300) and then punch it at the exit expecting to kick out the rear end a bit only to have the engine suddenly lose all power and the front end just nose dive on you.

As for airbags: pfffft. Just another nanny, feel-good, gadget I can do without...

A little thread drift here but, according to my owner's manual, some models came with a TRAC OFF switch. Mine does not have the switch. Can I just buy the switch from the dealer and pop it in like the cruise control stalk? Which models (or option, or market) came with the switch standard?

[Flipper_1938]

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[Yaristeve]

Originally Posted by Flipper_1938

My Yaris has the trac off button...but it only disables it one time. Once you get to 25 mph or so, traction control is turned back on.

It sucks to jump out into traffic and have the car just lay over on you.

Being a Yaris and FWD, the lack of a TRAC-OFF switch doesn't bother me that much. Even if the Yaris had 50 more hp, I think punching the throttle would just make you plow into oncoming traffic... Hmmmm... Maybe traction control is a good thing in a FWD car...

[MaineYaris12]

Originally Posted by Flipper_1938

Having "used" the airbags, I can testify that they are a wonderful thing.

My Yaris has the trac off button...but it only disables it one time. Once you get to 25 mph or so, traction control is turned back on.

It sucks to jump out into traffic and have the car just lay over on you.

hmmm wonder why you "used" your airbags. being a moron by jumping into traffic could be a possible clue!


what all you need is a refresher course in driving and possibly a new brain

[vector9mm]

If I remember, Consumer Reports bitched about the Yaris having optional ABS a few years back and it not being standard equipment. I thought at the time that it's better to have a choice. My 2008 came with ABS, but if there was a Yaris like mine without it for cheaper, I'd have bought it. ABS is one more thing to go wrong and get in the way in my book. I'm a minimalist.