STF posts

[ilikerice]

I have to say the new STF class the yaris is in, is insane.. Here is a post from my first event of the year in my region. It was a really big turnout. a few people were there that are not normally there from up north which bumped my Pax placement down a few.

ANYway, I placed 29th place out of 72 in RAW time.
placed 6th place in Pax time.. crazy

http://buccaneerregion.com/ce-1-12.html

I just got back from Jacksonville Florida where they just had their 2nd event of the year.

http://buccaneerregion.org/jax-2-12.html

1st place in my class out of 3 others, 2 drivers in a Fit and me
10th place Raw time out of I think 50 drivers
1st place in pax out of + or - 50 drivers

what a weekend..

[CrankyOldMan]

I love the PAX times results: Mustangs at the bottom, small imports at the top!

[racerb]

Can't understand why they keep adding more Classes, doen't it kinda dilute the car counts and spread them really thin?

racerb :iono:

[ilikerice]

I agree, its insane how many classes there are. I will say, We dont have a "Street Tire" class in savannah, but Jacksonville added their own tire class with stock class. I guess so it gives the newbies off the street a fighting chance against the guys in stock class with Rcomp tires.

but, I do it for fun and becoming a better driver. When you start trying to argue about classes though, it brings the fun out of the sport. I will leave that to the "national's" peoples

[racerb]

Guess I'm just used to the good old days, when we had Stock, Street Prepared, Prepared, and Modified, thats all. Most everyone ran Novice on street tires, then R compounds when they moved to Stock or Street Prepared. I was forced by lack of funds to run street tires at the '84 Solo Nationals and still wasn't last in class, but pretty close!!

racerb :redface:

[cali yaris]

I would sell Girl Scout cookies, in a skirt, to fund R comps.... there's no turning back....

[ilikerice]

I swear these Hankook RS-3's are so close to R comps its retarded. EVERYBODY is running these tires in ST class right now. IF I had a turbo or swap motor, I would run R comps also.. nothing beats them

[racerb]

Todays R-compounds are like the slicks of the 80s and early 90s, with the street tires better than the Rs we used to run! The Toyo RA-1 we still run today is about the only tire that hasn't changed in years!

racerb

[ilikerice]

http://buccaneerregion.org/jax-2-12.html

Sunday Autox event at Jacksonville. 1st in pax.. They will probably redo the pax for next year in the STF class. Its kinda unfair. lol. either that or I am just that good.. hahaha

[eTiMaGo]

I would sell Girl Scout cookies, in a skirt, to fund R comps.... there's no turning back....

a new business opportunity?

[Viperoni]

So wish I could be running events right now... we're still around the freezing mark and have snow on the ground up here :(

Congrats on doing well!

[ilikerice]

^I am surprised you dont have rally events during times like these. I would be all over that also.

Thanks.

[Jason@SportsCar]

I swear these Hankook RS-3's are so close to R comps its retarded. EVERYBODY is running these tires in ST class right now. IF I had a turbo or swap motor, I would run R comps also.. nothing beats them

Everybody except the winners... Who are running the Toyo - they swept ever class at the 2011 Solo Nationals except STU, which was won on Yokohamas. There are some great tires out there, but none of them match the top tier Rs. And if you want a real treat try a full race slick, they make Rs feel like street tires. :laugh:

[ilikerice]

I am not saying R comps are not amazing.. I used to run them on my CRX in SSM class.. But I am trying to stick with STF class with my yaris.

Which Toyo tire are you talking about? Both Proxes 4 and T1 are only available in 18" and 19" from tirerack right now. I dont see any other tires that are worth anything..

*EDIT* I found proxes 4 at another dealer also in 225/50/15.. Are those the one's you are talking about?

If I put on R comps, That will throw me in the Street Prepared class and I cannot throw more money in that class to be competitive. I'd like to stick with the STF class at least for the rest of this year.

[Jason@SportsCar]

I am not saying R comps are not amazing.. I used to run them on my CRX in SSM class.. But I am trying to stick with STF class with my yaris.

Which Toyo tire are you talking about? Both Proxes 4 and T1 are only available in 18" and 19" from tirerack right now. I dont see any other tires that are worth anything..

*EDIT* I found proxes 4 at another dealer also in 225/50/15.. Are those the one's you are talking about?

If I put on R comps, That will throw me in the Street Prepared class and I cannot throw more money in that class to be competitive. I'd like to stick with the STF class at least for the rest of this year.

The R1R is the street tire that is winning it all. http://toyotires.com/tire/pattern/proxes-r1r-extreme-performance-summer-tires

The 195-50-15 is the magic size that is crushing everything else.

[ilikerice]

wow.. Awesome.. thanks for that info.. I will look further into these. May try these out in a few months

[cali yaris]

I ran R1R's on my car, they were great, sticky enough and PREDICTABLE.

[Blown_xa]

I ran R1R's a couple years ago for time attacks. Very good. Didn't need warming up, and kicked butt in the rain ( with full tread). I get Grassroots Motorsports magazine, and according to tests the Rs3 outperform, but I haven't been on them yet. Seems like all the small cars out here run either R1R's or Rs3's, and the larger cars like STIs and Bimmers swear by Star specs.

[ilikerice]

I cannot say for R1R's, but my times definitely show how well the RS3's perform. Like I said, I will look into the R1R's towards the years end..

[racerb]

After looking at the R1Rs, I might have found my rain tire solution. I have run full tread RA-1s in the rain, but this R1R looks to be a much better tread design for water evacuation. Have been concidering Nitto NT-01s but would rather run all Toyos for the NASA contingency money.

racerb :w00t:

[Blown_xa]

I ran nt01s for a long time, they were ok and lasted forever for an R compound tire... At the time my street tires were fallen azenis, which were about 3 seconds a lap slower per 2:00 lap time. I swear my toyo r1rs felt better, even though they aren't considered an r compound. Never got to compare laps between the 2.

[xnamerxx]

ilikerice - what are you running for springs and shocks?
Your lucky to be in a area where people run STF, there is no one here who even bothers with the class which keeps my street driven CP Mustang busy.
Switch to the Toyo's they are so much faster than the rs-3 and star specs its not even a contest.

[Blown_xa]

Some wet footage on R1R's, years ago when I had 130whp. http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g5/Blown_xa/?action=view&current=Jul092007-VID00003.mp4

Drying up... http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g5/Blown_xa/?action=view&current=Jul102007-VID00004.mp4

[ilikerice]

Impressive. I am running Megan coilovers. I will switch to R1R's later in the year. Prob going to go with 195/50's.

I really need to get my low end up to speed. Need more "Umpf" coming out of turns. Just had an event sunday.. came in 10th again in pax. I run against some really tough competitors. But everyone is very impressed with the yaris and how it handles.

[ilikerice]

http://buccaneerregion.com/ce-2-12.html

10th place pax. not bad.

[Russelt3hPirate]

The wife will be racing her Yaris tomorrow in STF for the first time in a few years. We'll see how it stacks up against the Focus that's also in her class.

Silkroad Coilovers
15x7 RE30s
205/50/15 RE11s

Should be fun to watch. :D

[cali yaris]

You've got a good suspension set up, should be pretty competitive.

[Russelt3hPirate]

Car did awesome, but couldn't beat the older focus hatch on 20mm wider Hankook RS3s.

[Golddeenoh]

I take it the focus just out gripped you so he went a little faster in the corners.

[Russelt3hPirate]

Out gripped, out experienced, out driven. I'm curious to see where she pax'd, the STF pax is pretty awesome.

Abby drove the Yaris and she hasn't raced in a few years, she doesn't have as much autox under he belt. Working on it though. :)

I'm going to try and do an event where we co-drive the yaris, this way I can see what areas we need to address to make it more competitive locally. Be it power, grip, suspension, seat, harness. The driver mod is most crucial though. :D

We got a lot of compliments on the car, people love seeing a Yaris AutoXing.

[racerb]

ilikerice-Are you running the Drag Dr-16? If so what size and offset are they. I plan on buying a set of DR-16s in 15"x7" with the silver finish to kinda keep the stock wheel look! Just really like the way your car looks with those wheels.

racerb :thumbup:

[ilikerice]

Dr-16 are almost identical to my rota gt3. They are 15x7. I dont know the weight difference though.

[ilikerice]

Oh. And speaking of. I came in 7th pax last weekend. Im on my phone and on vacation and the results just got posted. Ill share the link when i get back home

[racerb]

Cool, good job man, can't wait to start running my Yari!!

racerb :clap:

[ilikerice]

Thanks. I cant wait to see ur times. If u run in scca could you post up what event you go to and when? I am going to hit up a south carolina event one weekend.

I still need to get a exhaust manifold and high flow cat. Trying to get a bit more power

[racerb]

Speaking of exhaust, did I read that in stock class I can run a cat-back or axel-back system? Just thought it might free up some power or at least get rid of one heavy ass muffler!

racerb :iono:

[ilikerice]

Yes. I do believe i read the same thing.

[richard_rsp]

Hmm. Sounds like I need to venture over to Buccaneer and check out your setup. I'm over in Valdosta (Dixie Region) and just picked up a 2012 Yaris L 3D. Do you guys still run at Hutchinson Island or are you over at Roebling?

[xnamerxx]

I think all of you guys need to take a road trip to So-Cal and run in CalClub to give me some company :biggrin:

[ilikerice]

We run mostly hutchinson and have 2 events at roebling. Ive been to dixie region once 3 years ago. Havent been able to get the time to go again. That was with my crx though and was still a beginner.

[racerb]

We finally got to see Hutchinson Island last time we raced at Roebling, looks like a fun coarse, hope I can run there some day!! The Wife liked it to, thinks she might want to drive it herself...

racerb :biggrin:

[ilikerice]

Keep in mind. We dont use the actual track. We use the padock and use pit lane to grid up. At roebling we start at the line and go thru turn 1,2,3,4.

[racerb]

Some of my buddies go down to Hutchinson about once a year and race the full coarse, thats what I wanna do!

racerb :burnrubber:

[richard_rsp]

Ive been to dixie region once 3 years ago. Havent been able to get the time to go again. That was with my crx though and was still a beginner.

Well we have an event on Sunday (20th) at Spence Field in Moultrie. I'm not running (still breaking in the engine/car) but would love to check out ur car I u head this way! :)

[ilikerice]

Thanks. I am still on vacation this weekend. It prob wont be til later in the summer early fall before i can make a road trip out of an autocross event.

That just made me think of something. If your region has a website that post up event dates thru out the year can you post a link so i can add to my calender and see which one i will plan on doing a few months in advanced. After my wedding next year i wanna hit up as many events as possible on the east coast. I had planned to do that this year until i proposed :facepalm: lol.

[ilikerice]

Some of my buddies go down to Hutchinson about once a year and race the full coarse, thats what I wanna do!

racerb :burnrubber:

Yea. It opens up for clubs who pay a huge amount to run. Ferrari club, Z club, Porsche club, etc..

[richard_rsp]

http://www.dixiescca.com/

Under "About Our Events" ---> "Event Schedule"

I would LOVE to see a crowd of Yaris owners at our events!

[racerb]

Yea. It opens up for clubs who pay a huge amount to run. Ferrari club, Z club, Porsche club, etc..

Yea my NASA buds went down last year to instruct with the Ferrari Club, they took their American Iron cars (mostly Mustangs) to play on track. All said they had a ball and most were faster than the Ferrari guys, so that kinda was icing on the cake!!

racerb :bellyroll:

[ilikerice]

Well. I will say i am sure those Ferrari guys are only putting %50-%70 what that car is capable of. There are alot of concrete walls on that track. Esp after the first long stretch and S turns. There is no run off. If you lose control its all wall.

About 10 years ago a bunch of street racers used to hang out back there cause it wasnt closed off. A kid died racing hitting a wall. Shut that while track down. Owned by ga ports athority now. Gotta pay them to open it up.

[ilikerice]

here are the BuccaneerRegion in Savannah, Ga. event schedule
http://buccaneerregion.com/soloevents.html

Here are my results from my event a couple weeks back.
http://buccaneerregion.com/ce-4-12.html

[xnamerxx]

Well its my turn to add my results to this thread. While I didn't get in the top 20 like I was hoping for I did pull a 45/138 which in San Diego isn't bad. We also had a couple of FRS show up which it was cool to see but they turned out to be much slower than I was expecting. This event was also an experiment for me, I wanted to test to see how the car performs with the front sway bar disconnected. The one thing I noticed immediately was the car had way more traction off the line, this helps because I can rev the nuts off the engine and get it moving whereas before I would flow the passenger tire away. Handling wise the car is completely different you would definitely need much stiffer springs to do this since body roll increases dramatically which also causes turn in to suffer. The car also developed a pretty bad tenancy to oversteer when lifting off and applying the brakes it was easily controllable but it kept me from keeping the car on the edge of grip. The main benefit to removing the front bar was the insane amount of grip available on corner exit, I've been so used to the inside tire spinning I wasn't trusting the car was going to have grip available when I got on it but it held on each and every time.

Here is a video of my fast time, my driving wasn't very good since I didn't have a great feel for how it was going to behave but overall I'm satisfied with the results.

http://www.sdr-scca.com/solo2/results/2012/2012-06020603/scat-7_pax-web.htm

Video of the run you can see how unsure I am with the way I'm driving. The car also seems to have lost a small bit of lateral traction which if fine since it's gained so much corner exit grip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqAVDlZPhc8

[ilikerice]

nice. our event last sunday got canceled due to bad storm. rescheduled for the 24th. I will try to get videos this time.. lol.. I just hate the quality of my epic. Need a gopro

[ilikerice]

oh, and the FR-S. Were the guys running them have any previous experence more then a year or 2 of autocross? I ask because we had a guy bring a new GT-R a few times and it wasn't doing very well. But one of our expericenced Evo drivers took it for one run and got a really good time just on his first run. Just saying I dont want a bad judgement on the FR-S because of some guys with money that are afraid to plow into a chicago box.

[xnamerxx]

We had 4 drivers and 2 different cars. The fast guy was somewhere in the nature of 2 seconds quicker than me and he was running 225 star specs on stock rims and the driver said he had somewhere in the nature of 10+ years of experience. The other car was about a seconds slower than me in a completely stock car. I normally wouldn't comment on the speed difference but I have about a year of experience and I run rain tires so a decent driver with decent tires should be faster than me.

The FRS looked pretty composed but I don't have high hopes for it in B/C stock its just to slow.

If you scroll down to "Time Only" you can see the time results for yourself.

http://sdr-scca.com/solo2/results/2012/2012-06020603/scat-7_fin-web.htm

[Jason@SportsCar]

This event was also an experiment for me, I wanted to test to see how the car performs with the front sway bar disconnected. The one thing I noticed immediately was the car had way more traction off the line, this helps because I can rev the nuts off the engine and get it moving whereas before I would flow the passenger tire away. Handling wise the car is completely different you would definitely need much stiffer springs to do this since body roll increases dramatically which also causes turn in to suffer. The car also developed a pretty bad tenancy to oversteer when lifting off and applying the brakes it was easily controllable but it kept me from keeping the car on the edge of grip. The main benefit to removing the front bar was the insane amount of grip available on corner exit, I've been so used to the inside tire spinning I wasn't trusting the car was going to have grip available when I got on it but it held on each and every time.



It takes a lot of spring rate, and even more rebound in your shocks to pull that off.

If your car has the 24mm front try and locate a 23mm, helps with rotation and getting power down, but its not as big of a leap as pulling the bar.

[xnamerxx]

The 22mm bar is from a 07 sedan correct?

Yeah I don't have anywhere near enough front spring to handle not having a bar, it was completely apparent the tire rubbing on the fender.

I liked the corner exit traction but trail braking felt terrible I would oversteer with to moderate brake application so it kept me from really getting on the brakes late.

[Jason@SportsCar]

The 22mm bar is from a 07 sedan correct?

Yeah I don't have anywhere near enough front spring to handle not having a bar, it was completely apparent the tire rubbing on the fender.

I liked the corner exit traction but trail braking felt terrible I would oversteer with to moderate brake application so it kept me from really getting on the brakes late.

Sorry, had the numbers mixed up, its a 23mm or 24mm. I can't say with any certainty what year/model came with what bar - some people have reported finding the smaller on a hatch, we did get ours off of a 2007 sedan. Warning, it is a PIA to change.

Just look for the paint dot. http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showpost.php?p=573940&postcount=749

[cali yaris]

I think all of you guys need to take a road trip to So-Cal and run in CalClub to give me some company

Let me know next time you're going out!

[ilikerice]

Does anyone check the Temp of thier tires (outer, middle, inner) after each run and adjust tire pressures accordingly?

How hot is too hot on a Street tire?

I ask, because I had to do 3 runs back to back last sunday. Noticed my stopping was getting further and further. When I finally was able to stop at grid, I found my front tires were at 190*F. I have never seen them this hot before. They usually hover around 115-125.. Most i have seen was 133, and that was a very corner friendly course.

Also I would like to add that this was across the tire.. I think I dialed my camber, just right.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Does anyone check the Temp of thier tires (outer, middle, inner) after each run and adjust tire pressures accordingly?

How hot is too hot on a Street tire?

I ask, because I had to do 3 runs back to back last sunday. Noticed my stopping was getting further and further. When I finally was able to stop at grid, I found my front tires were at 190*F. I have never seen them this hot before. They usually hover around 115-125.. Most i have seen was 133, and that was a very corner friendly course.

Also I would like to add that this was across the tire.. I think I dialed my camber, just right.

190* is to hot for an ST tire, even the Hankook, you need to be spraying with water between runs.

You can't get accurate alignment data with temps after a lap, the nature of course, and amount of time driving strait back to grid tosses it out the window. The only way this works is on a skid pad, checking the loaded side, then change directions and repeat.

[xnamerxx]

I do for surface temps since I don't have a probe. I usually start watering when my surface temps say 130+ and the highest I've seen after a run is ~165. I don't have the ability to read core temps so I can only guess as to how hot it was but as anemically the air coming out of the tire was quite hot.

Are you reading surface data or are you using a probe? As far as I know surface data is useless unless your trying to dial in air pressure and camber.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Are you reading surface data or are you using a probe? As far as I know surface data is useless unless your trying to dial in air pressure and camber.

We have both types... Typically we find the temp difference to be around 10*, which is not bad. But the real issue is the surface temp (IR) starts to drop as soon as you stop turning, and driving strait back to grid also effects the surface temp readings, while the core (probe) temps will hold long enough to get a decent reading.

[ilikerice]

ahh.. good info.. I am using surface temp also.. but you do make good point. I normally spray with water between runs, but I had 3 runs back to back because of red flags on course workers. before my outside of the tire was usually 15* hotter than my inside after each run. but after last event, its been even across the board. But your right, optimal readings are in the actual turn itself.

[ilikerice]

Ok, I tried to get a video of my event #5, but my mount I tried from radioshack wasn't worth crap. Almost lost my phone out the window. Glad I didnt try doing it from the outside. I got video of that, I just gotta upload it off my phone.

Well, my 5th event, I came in 6th overall in pax. Was a fast course setup. bounced off the rev limiter a couple times. Alot of wide long turns.

http://buccaneerregion.com/ce-5-12.html

Then, last sunday, Event #6, I came in 1st in overall Pax.. WHAT!!!! I pulled that off in my second run, granted there were not as many people there, but the National guys were there, Stuart and Chuck, including a Mazda3 from Ohio that races every weekend apparently, He was really good, and would have had alot of pride to say he beat everyone in Buccaneer region when he was visiting. Now he can laugh at how a yaris beat him.. lol.

Well, here are the results of that event

http://buccaneerregion.com/ce-6-12.html

[xnamerxx]

Are you going to the Lincoln champs?

[ilikerice]

Not this year. I simply can't afford it. I need new tires really bad. Maybe a couple more events left in this set.. Money is really tight right now with planning this wedding in april. Did not realize how expensive it was gonna be. But once this wedding is over with, I will do more attempts at hitting up some national events next year. I really wanna see how I compete against more STF class cars. Also, National event courses are very HP friendly from what video's I have seen. I prob wont do so good against other class's

[xnamerxx]

Not this year. I simply can't afford it. I need new tires really bad. Maybe a couple more events left in this set.. Money is really tight right now with planning this wedding in april. Did not realize how expensive it was gonna be. But once this wedding is over with, I will do more attempts at hitting up some national events next year. I really wanna see how I compete against more STF class cars. Also, National event courses are very HP friendly from what video's I have seen. I prob wont do so good against other class's

I here ya its whats keeping me back this year also. I wouldn't say that I know packwood was a miata course and Andy Hollis did quite well in his 2. If I had to guess I would say your probably 2-3 seconds quicker than me which should put you on par with the quick guy in my region and about a 1-1.5s from Andy Hollis time judging by how he performed against people I raced against.

[ilikerice]

i wonder what STF car is dominating? I assume that miata is STS. One day I will try my hand at nationals.. maybe Dixie Tour next year.

I was planning on going to Nebraska, but It's not in the cards for me anymore.

[xnamerxx]

I think the Mazda 2 is dominating so far from what I've been seeing but that's also the only car that's really getting development. Oh by Miata course I mean a course that works well for small low powered cars.

I kinda of know which direction I need to take the car for it to be successful but getting a hold of some of the things required has been difficult to say the least.

[ilikerice]

yep. What are your plans? if you don't mind me asking, of course, if you wanna keep it secret, totally understand, hehe

[xnamerxx]

Nah i'll spill the beans :) The front springs will be either 400-450 lb/in and no front sway bar and rear springs at 350 lb/in. I could go higher but I think this is about the limit I want for a DD. I'll end up replacing my rear bilsteins with Konis or AST shocks and my bilsteins fronts are going to get revalved.

I've been trying to get dynatronics or pistani tune to give me a quote on getting the ecu flashed so no hassles with wiring but they do flash the ECU so that is at least an option.

I've been speaking to a coworker of mine about getting a long tube header made but also asking other companies about getting a header made for a reasonable price if neither of those two options works out or I decide to hit the easy button I'll likely have buy an off the shelf header.

I've been doing drawings about making a pillowball/camber plate since the upper strut mount from the prius is a close fit for the yaris but will need slight modification and a hole drilled but getting the plate made and the bearing cup welded is pretty simple plus if I could get the strut shaft slightly shorter I could turn it into an actual camber plate. But I may hit the easy button and buy the cusco mount if I want to spend an extra 200 dollars.

I've got a bunch of wire so I can move the battery to the trunk and it only adds something like 2lbs plus it gets rid of that stupid high battery in the front.

[ilikerice]

Ooo.. you got alot going on, let me know about that reflash on the ecu and results. Interested in that.

What tires have you gone with, and are you DD those tires or do you have a separete set of rims/wheels as DD? My RS-3 are done. Had them since Aug of last year and with consistant rotating, athey are done. about 2/32" left tread on the front and 1/32 on the rear. no threads showing and not yet completely bald..maybe have 2 events left in them. Thats roughly 10k miles, with autocross at least once a month and one track event about 5 20min sessions that day.

On my next set, I will swap rims/tires a couple days before autocross so I can get the feel of it. No longer DD these 140 treadwear tires, lol.. may just run FSP and get some R-comps

[xnamerxx]

I'll let you know about the ECU reflash the guy is in Texas but is sort of hard to get a hold of by email guess hes one of those old school guys.

I'm currently running my DD tires which are conti extreme contact DW's they are pretty good as long as its really cold or raining which being in So cal doesn't happen very often. But I'm going to be buy a separate set of wheels and tires in the coming months I figure the R1R's or RS3 should knock a few seconds off my time. Not sure what I'm going to be doing about rims though I don't know if I have the patience to wait for the 949racing wheels or if I should go cheap and buy a set of trmotorsports 6ul knockoff's.
At one of the last events I was talking to a rep from osgiken and for a few weeks I was seriously considering moving to FSP but I don't think the Yaris will be all that successful since more powerful cars and diffs are allowed.
I figure with a proper STF build you should be able to get a yaris down to 1.5-2s off a nat level STCivic on a 60s course.
Here are the packwood results if you haven't seen them. Andy Hollis will be the guy to take down
http://www.scca.com/solo/content.cfm?cid=51062

[Jason@SportsCar]

I've got a bunch of wire so I can move the battery to the trunk and it only adds something like 2lbs plus it gets rid of that stupid high battery in the front.

You want to add weight to move weight? Waste of time. Put a 6lb battery in the stock location and call it a day.

[ilikerice]

I'd like to play with FSP for the LSD. lol. yaris needs it so much.

[Jason@SportsCar]

I'd like to play with FSP for the LSD. lol. yaris needs it so much.

I think the Yaris would be way more fun in FSP than in STFail. :thumbup: LSD, light flywheel, big wheels and tires (wide and short), power. :cool:

[xnamerxx]

:laughabove:You want to add weight to move weight? Waste of time. Put a 6lb battery in the stock location and call it a day.

It's not quite adding weight since the wire only weighs 3 lbs and my battery currently weighs 27. The braille is on my list of improvements I just don't like having weight up high, hell I'd move the battery where most of the CAI's pull in just to get the weight lower on the car. But I'm sure that 6lbs up top make almost no difference.

I've found the LSD isn't such an issue if you get rid of the front bar but figuring out the spring rates you need to run to compensate for no front bar is another matter all together.

I think the Yaris would be way more fun in FSP than in STFail. :thumbup: LSD, light flywheel, big wheels and tires (wide and short), power. :cool:

I believe its STFu :laughabove:

[Jason@SportsCar]

:laughabove:

It's not quite adding weight since the wire only weighs 3 lbs and my battery currently weighs 27. The braille is on my list of improvements I just don't like having weight up high, hell I'd move the battery where most of the CAI's pull in just to get the weight lower on the car. But I'm sure that 6lbs up top make almost no difference.



Sorry, 30lbs in the back is not an improvement over 6lbs in the front. Also don't forget the mounting hardware and battery box if you are using a non-sealed battery. But it will be worth it for the added inconvenience of having the battery using up hatch space. :laugh:

Go look at fast ST Hondas, you will find the battery under the hood. But go ahead and reinvent the wheel. :thumbsup:

[cali yaris]

I have to say that is true of the Hondas that are competitive; battery is right there in stock location.

[xnamerxx]

Can't argue with you on that the STCivic's do keep the battery in the stock location but I think those cars are more concerned with total weight reduction vs weight location. It was just something I thought of but haven't had a chance to apply since I don't have a sealed battery. I just don't like the f/r balance the car had from the factory and wanted to do anything I could to fix that.
The stock battery won't fit correctly anywhere in the trunk without making a custom case. But I'm sure I'll buy a braille or a pc535 and mount it in the stock location.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Can't argue with you on that the STCivic's do keep the battery in the stock location but I think those cars are more concerned with total weight reduction vs weight location. It was just something I thought of but haven't had a chance to apply since I don't have a sealed battery. I just don't like the f/r balance the car had from the factory and wanted to do anything I could to fix that.
The stock battery won't fit correctly anywhere in the trunk without making a custom case. But I'm sure I'll buy a braille or a pc535 and mount it in the stock location.

You can not effectively fix the weight balance of the Yaris within the framework of the rules. Creating work and doing unnecessary mods for the sake of doing them is nothing but a waste of time and money. Work on driving, the rest does not matter much.

The 99 car sits at 1800lbs, with 1200lbs of it on the front. Its not ideal, but I can assure it is faster than a 2400lb Yaris with a 50/50 split.

[xnamerxx]

I never figured I would be able to get a meaningful move from one side to the other but from a numbers standpoint I didn't like the having 1350 lbs on the front tires compared to the 850 I had on the rear.

I don't think a weight difference of 50 lbs anywhere on the car will affect its ability with my driving skills. Its just one of those things Id rather not jump into a gun fight with a 22.

I haven't touched the car at all this season aside to play with alignment changes and disconnecting the front sway to see how the car behaves. I'm not really touching anything until I can get some better tires.

[justjesus]

So who was the white Yaris running STF at El Toro yesterday (07/22/12)?

Namer: Glad to see the girl back and driving the Yaris :)

[xnamerxx]

I didn't catch his name but he was a cool enough guy. Yeah she was having the time of her life in that car I think it's her 3rd event so far but she's starting to get the hang of it.

I made sure to have Tom Berry drive her around just once to see what the car can really do. He was something like 8 seconds faster than her, but I was more surprised he was so complimentary about my car since its a hell of a lot slower than the ASP EVO he normally drives. I want to say Tom was about 7 seconds quicker in my car than in the white one so tells you how much tires and shocks are worth.

You didn't look bad in the civic though although that course must have been difficult in that car I was WOT in my Mustang and having a hard time of it I can't imagine how the civic was taking it.

[justjesus]

That's so cool. Glad she's having fun out there. My ex didn't like the "work" part of it, as the dust/dirt at El Toro messed with her allergies way bad.

I had Mr. Berry drive my Yaris as well, with the girl and me in the car. He liked it too. He sure can toss that little thing around!

I hit the rev limiter about 3 times in my car. it was a crazy fast course!!!
DUDE, what about that "optional" diamond? LOL that thing was nuts!
The civic, otherwise, took it well. New Toyos aren't good for El Toro. But, come Fontana, they will be better. ;)

[xnamerxx]

Yeah I'm not a big fan of the work part of it either but you get by. I like the surface at El Toro more but for some reason I like running at Fontana better but I live like 5 miles away from El Toro so I don't have to wake up early when I go there.
Yeah I think I was on the rev limiter twice in mine but after watching my videos its pretty clear the struts are blown in my mustang so that'll likely be the last race for a while.
That diamond was nuts I kept taking the left hand side but after watching Jeff S video I think the right hand side would have been the better choice although the end kept me from really pushing the car since I was never sure if I was going to make it or not I was probably giving up a second or two in that last turn alone.
I would have expect the civics to be hating that course since there so highly sprung and the speeds that could hit were nuts.

[justjesus]

I like running El Toro better. Not just cuz it's so much closer. I seem to do better there (or the others do worse? I tend to see others get more cones and DNFs at El Toro).
Sucks that your struts are blown. I'm dreading the day mine go out.

I kept thinking the right would be better. Everyone said go left. So I did. except the one time it came up fast and I didn't react fast enough and went right. It was funny seeing people do the same, or plow INTO the diamond. Good stuff. LOL

Nah. The civics are surprisinly, civil. hehe. Stiffly sprung, but it doesn't feel like it!! I actually think mine runs smoother than my Yaris in most conditions.

[cali yaris]

^ I've ridden along with you, it doesn't feel as stiff as it actually is. (oh boy, does that sound wrong).

[justjesus]

^ I've ridden along with you, it doesn't feel as stiff as it actually is. (oh boy, does that sound wrong).

It doesn't help that I LOL and sit right next to my boss.

[xnamerxx]

I had heard they don't tolerate high speed turns very well(I think Steve Ekstrand had some troubles at the previous event on that right hand sweeper).

I've always figured you could get away with the super high spring rates because most of the cars are running some nuts penske or Koni 30 series shock that let you get away with it.

I'm not to worried about the struts on that car they've lived a long and very very hard life plus they suck so it gives me a reason to upgrade. But that $800 bill is going to be a bit tough to swallow so its down to street driving for awhile but gives me more incentive to get the yaris competitive. Knowing its still to slow with Tom Berry driving tells me I need to drop my wheels and tires down to a 195/50/15 size which means R1R's are in my future.

LOL I didn't think anyone actually hit the diamond dead center

[justjesus]

THAT is interesting!!
At this last one, that first right hander, I was pretty much flooring it all the way through.

I like that line of thought! Upgrade the Yaris!!!!!
You're currently on a 16" wheel, right? On a low powered Yaris, going to a lightweight 15" will help. And I'm liking the R1Rs :) just got some new ones thru Micro Image. Thanks Garm!

I'm curious to how both our cars will stack up. I haven't autoX mine in quite some time.

Yeah. Straight on.... it was funny. Except for the two guys working that area.

Hey, which anti-roll bar you running out back??

[xnamerxx]

Yeah I'm running 16" OZ Chono's or something bought them years ago. Yeah I need to move to 15"s this car needs all the torque it can get since that 1-2 shift is so wide hell if I had some redline id be downshifting into first on some of these corners. My car isn't all that well setup so it will be interesting I don't think I've seen yours run yet.

I saw some craziness in the end section but was having a really hard time keeping track of everything since I was working radio and some of the course workers were quite green.

I'm running the TRD bar in the back when I thought running H Stock in this thing was a good idea. I haven't really wanted to replace it since I don't know how the car is going to behave with new springs so its going to be one of the last things I change. It's worked out so far for me.

[justjesus]

LOL - I remember my first autoX, with Long (LT Noogie) - He was riding shot gun and showing me what to do. I went to downshift into first, cuz of the speed i was at. It was hard to do it, by the time I was able to I was moving SOOO slow, he said, "what are you doing? are you trying to PARK the car?"

There are some videos of me running. Including a neat slo mo video. Mostly, interior view vids I did myself. JustJesusVideo on youtube.
My car isn't set up at all. Just ran it in CST. Tiger springs and UR rear bar. HAD TRD intake but I sold it when I thought I was going to do HS. dumb move.

[cali yaris]

"are you trying to PARK the car?"

omg -- priceless. By the time I met you, you were faster than him. Now you're ALMOST faster than me. :bow:

[cali yaris]

Yeah I need to move to 15"s

Or 13's. :wink:

[xnamerxx]

If Toyo made r1r in 13" id go that route in a heartbeat but 15" is the only size where I have decent tire choices.

Well my box of toys came in today 350# purple springs now time to get some for the front :)

I've been running CST in my mustang but the pax index is retarded because I can run full slicks in its real class and still pax lower.

You going to be bringing your yaris back for the thinking of lincoln champ?

[cali yaris]

I hope you give us a chance to quote you on parts sometime, we are usually quite competitive.

what is "thinking of lincoln"?

In 13's you've got A6, R6, V710, R888, Ventus and a few others. not so bad.

[justjesus]

omg -- priceless. By the time I met you, you were faster than him. Now you're ALMOST faster than me. :bow:

ALMOST? Darn you, man! I shouldn't have helped you shave those two seconds off..... I WOULD have been faster than you ;)

...

Well my box of toys came in today 350# purple springs now time to get some for the front :)

I've been running CST in my mustang but the pax index is retarded because I can run full slicks in its real class and still pax lower.

You going to be bringing your yaris back for the thinking of lincoln champ?


The last box of toys I got were spark plugs and wires :( I want better toys.

I thought CST / CSM were NOT indexed?? Thought it was a run-what-ya-brung class. CSM is for R-comps, CST for street tires.

I'm definitely going to El Toro on Aug 5 (Garm, Cal Club names their events. the next one is Thinking of Lincoln, takes place as I noted above... you should come out so I can beat you finally!!!!) --- I was planning on finding a way to "caravan" my crx as well as my civic, as I do have a co-driver I committed to for the civic. I guess I can maybe bring the Yaris instead. Ultimately, it depends on the run/work order. I can do X-runs in the 2nd vehicle I bring out.


and Garm, sorry, but he can't run any of those tire choices you listed if he plans to continue to run in STF. It's the street tire class. :)

[xnamerxx]

I hope you give us a chance to quote you on parts sometime, we are usually quite competitive.

what is "thinking of lincoln"?

In 13's you've got A6, R6, V710, R888, Ventus and a few others. not so bad.


The springs I bought were only available from one vendor from what I could find it was an odd size 3" coilover spring used on off road trucks or something basically a hard to find part.

I would normally go through you guys since your the only vendor that can get parts in a reasonable amount of time are the easiest to work with.

thought CST / CSM were NOT indexed?? Thought it was a run-what-ya-brung class. CSM is for R-comps, CST for street tires.

Yeah CST/CSM are paxed I think CSM is .879 and CST is .862 basically if you want to be competitive on the pax index cst is a bad class to run unless you have a fully prepped mod car on street tires.

Yeah thats the reason I ran CP last event I don't like working at noon and running at 4-5 it gets old quick.

[xnamerxx]

If anyone is interested in running an autocross on 8/5/12 Cal Club will be hosting the Thinking of Lincoln event. Here are the details https://www.motorsportreg.com/index.cfm/event/event.advert/uidEvent/9D43BC7E-9A79-7C22-FD7BE4DCFE0FEFE0


You should bring your car out Garm, people still talk about that thing like it was a unicorn.

[justjesus]

WHAT?!?!

People are STILL talking about his Yaris? Oh WOW. He hasn't been to an event in a while!!

[xnamerxx]

Yeah I've had at least 5 people tell me about this one crazy Yaris that showed up with a bunch of other Yaris's Yarii not sure of pluralization in tow.

[cali yaris]

I think even with my R888's I have to be in SM or CSM. But I don't understand the classing at all, and I'm not really competing to win.

I'll try for Aug. 5, but we'll see what's going on at home.

I bet they talk about it... "yeah there was this really fast Yaris being driven by a total NOOB senior driver....".... .. ..................... :rolleyes:

[xnamerxx]

I think your car falls into SMF or a EP car or a CSM car if you don't care about which national class your car runs in.

Nah I haven't heard anything negative about your car just that it was a crazy yaris.

[justjesus]

Yeah I've had at least 5 people tell me about this one crazy Yaris that showed up with a bunch of other Yaris's Yarii not sure of pluralization in tow.

must have been from this day.... dec 2009


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d31/kickjudokarl/yarii1.jpg
:

[Jason@SportsCar]

I think even with my R888's I have to be in SM or CSM. But I don't understand the classing at all, and I'm not really competing to win.

I'll try for Aug. 5, but we'll see what's going on at home.

I bet they talk about it... "yeah there was this really fast Yaris being driven by a total NOOB senior driver....".... .. ..................... :rolleyes:

Previously you would have been in CSM (local class with DOT R tires) or XP (national class with any tire) due to the forced induction and carbon rear hatch - with a stock rear hatch you could have run SMF (national class).

With the interior out you are limited to CSM or XP. You could go to Mod, likely EM, but you are better off in CSM or XP.

[xnamerxx]

Well I decided to test fit the rear coilover springs I got and thank god Toyota drilling holes in the spring seat so I could use something to secure the spring just in case the wheel got to full droop.

Also learned the old perch perch pads from my mustang are a perfect fit for the spring adjuster that comes with the HR coilovers.

Although these springs through a wrench in my plans now because going down the Saleen test route I didn't get one instance or corner exit wheel spin like I normally would so I don't know if removing the front bar is a good idea anymore even though they don't feel all that much stiffer than the ones I just removed.

[justjesus]

^ should have include a couple of pics!

hmm. you know what the rates were? maybe they are not that different

[xnamerxx]

HR has been no help in trying to figure out what the spring rates were judging by how much the springs sag when weight is applied to them I'm going to guess they were in the 200-290 lb range. In either case they were progressive rate spings so it would be difficult to know for sure.
I didn't really expect everything to fit so well aside from tying the spring in place so it doesn't fall out of the perch at full droop it fit with almost no modification needed. The real test will be Sunday but I don't expect much to come of this aside from either being slightly slower/faster.

The car definitely developed some interesting behavior on the street almost feels like a VW awd car so the linear front springs can't come in soon enough.

But one thing I did notice is that the car isn't really all that more uncomfortable hell with decent shocks I think 400-450 might not be that bad on the street.

[justjesus]

Yeah, HR isn't good about giving out info. I've tried.

You ever think about going to Adams in Riverside for testing? I like it cuz it's a good place to get your kicks, and good place for testing. Just sucks that it's a bit far.

400-450 should be fine on the street. I'm using that rate on my crx with the Tokico's set on full stiff.

[xnamerxx]

I've been to adams before in my Mustang but haven't gone with the Yaris. I normally can't make it due to my work schedule and not being able to get there until at least 8 when everythings almost over.

Yeah I actually called them up but wasn't able to get anywhere and the TUV report wasn't helpfull either. So I attempted to check the old fashioned way by applying weight to the car and measuring the droop but seeing as the springs are progressive its not really all that accurate. I'm just happy the springs fit with little to no adjustment.
I'll try to get some pictures of my kludging of the spring to make it work but almost a week of driving and lifting of the rear wheels hasn't caused anything the break yet.
I think I could handle 400 lb/in but I would need some decent adjustable shock as it sits right now I don't think I would like anything stiffer than 375".

The motion ratios on the Yaris and CRX are differant so its hard to compare spring rates. Hell I had 1200lb/in springs on my mustang and that ride wasn't all that bad but moving the spring on the strut and lowering it to 400lb/in made the car stiffer so its really an apples/oranges comparison.

[xnamerxx]

So bumping the rear spring rate turned out to work way better than I expected at El Toro the car could take almost any line I wanted and the turn arounds where I normally have tons of issues just worked for me I could stay tight and just pedal-it a bit to get the car where I wanted it to be. If my tires didn't keep overheating and had a bit more grip I would have been on the heels of some of the faster ST Civics.
This car flat out works right now although I would like a touch more spring in the front it doesn't seem to be a big issue. Its so much fun to hang the ass out doing 40 mph in a FWD car.

[justjesus]

I didn't see you run, but you were right on MY heels, for sure!!!
Less than two seconds behind me.
You should pick up those wheels, man!! (from Peter Looney) And get two more, to complete the set. slap on some Toyos..... and have some fun chasing the STC guys!

[xnamerxx]

I'm stuck in a tough spot right now, I'm trying to figure out a way to get the car to nationals while not killing my entire budget, so I haven't quite figured out how I was going to do that.

Pete's wheels are on the top of my list but I might end up going cheap and buying some Kumho XS's or Falkens just so I have something decent on my rims. I would keep my Conti's on but the outside edge are toast from not running enough camber earlier in the year.

I paxed higher than I normally do hell I was less than 2 seconds off Jonathan Lugod on pax and I'm running worn out rain tires so something with the car is definitely working.

[justjesus]

NO WAY?!?!?! Props to you for even thinking of Nats!!!

In testing by Grassroots, the XS was a decent tire in autoX. I believe it was the 205/50-15 size that was tested. It's a good way to go given the price.

And Jon is a great driver! Nicely done.

[Jason@SportsCar]

I'm stuck in a tough spot right now, I'm trying to figure out a way to get the car to nationals while not killing my entire budget, so I haven't quite figured out how I was going to do that.

Pete's wheels are on the top of my list but I might end up going cheap and buying some Kumho XS's or Falkens just so I have something decent on my rims. I would keep my Conti's on but the outside edge are toast from not running enough camber earlier in the year.



Don't do it. Compromising in the short term wont help you, neither of those tires can get it done.

You would be better off saving your money for the good stuff and flipping the tires you have - this assumes the rest of the tire is still ok, and you have only burned up the outside edge.

[xnamerxx]

NO WAY?!?!?! Props to you for even thinking of Nats!!!


Well I still have to figure out my tire problem but I've got the time off work just in case.

[ilikerice]

I agree with Jason on the tires.. dont go cheap on tires.. get the good stuff, esp if you are going for nationals.

Also, was wondering if Jason has heard/read about SCCA making the R1R's illegal next year. Someone was telling me about that over the weekend at autocross when I said I was gonna get some R1R's soon.

Now for my autocross update.
Aug 4th was my last event and it was at Roebling Road Raceway, we used 1/3 of the track, turns 1-4. It was really tight too, bounced off rev limiter in 2nd one time. Usually we can get into 3rd at the track events.

Excited, there was a mazda2 (was a novice, only had wider rims that put him in STF) and honda fit (rival) from jacksonville that came also. If you remember, i went to Jacksonville back in Feb and beat everyone in Pax there. So he came back to return the favor.. he beat me by 1 cone. I could not get a clean run to save my life. It was such a close run too. I ran a 79.9 +1cone and he ran a clean 80.2. That .3 sec in a 80+ second couse.. That is insane how close we were too.

Overall, the Fit beat everyone in Pax, S2000 CR came in second and I came in 3rd. I say not too bad with 1 cone added to my best time.

The results are in:
http://buccaneerregion.com/ce-7-12.html

[xnamerxx]

The r1r rule was removed so its a non issue, I really don't want to go cheap on the tires but its a tempting option.

To give you some perspective on that guy here are the Dixie National Tour results from the beginning of the year. So its a good bet some of those drivers are faster now. Todd Freeman will place 2nd at nationals and Andy Hollis will take it down.

T 1 91 Todd Freeman 2006 Mini Cooper White/ Hankook 59.372(2) 55.051 55.206 Total 107.574
Plymouth,MN Land O Lak 54.489 52.523 54.619(1)


T 2 77 Andres Rodriguez 2012 Mazda 2 Silver Toyo 55.930 55.225 55.301 Total 108.057
Plantation,FL Mike Car Shop and Costin Florida/ 52.832 53.398 54.735(1) (0.483)


3 32 Ervin Carder 2012 Mazda 2 Green Toyo 64.035(4) 56.358 56.012 Total 109.709
Alabaster,AL Alabama/ 58.183(2) 53.697 57.844(3) (1.652)


4 23 Chris Hill 2006 Mazda 3 Titanium Hankook 62.767(4) 58.107(2) 56.148 Total 109.815
Anderson,SC Mazdaspeed Motorsports Central Ca DNF 55.660 53.667 (0.106)


5 15 Adam Neylans 2010 Honda Fit White Hankook 58.810 56.869 56.210 Total 111.472
Keystone Heights,FL Buccaneer/ 56.365(1) 61.073 55.262 (1.657)


Doing a bunch of armchair quarterbacking and wishful thinking I think I could place top 4 but realistically I'm likely a bottom 3 contender.

[ilikerice]

Ok. Adam nylans is the guy i race against here in my region and i know i am faster than he is and i still have a few mods left open for me. But finding 3 seconds in 3 runs would be hard

[xnamerxx]

That was also from March so he may have gotten faster since then but its a way to armchair benchmark yourself.

I'll repeat something wise that was told to me, you won't really know how fast you are until you go to some of the out of town events where the fast drivers show up.
This is a big part of why I decided to go to nationals this year since I won't have the opportunity to go next year. Even though I know winning isn't an option unless something unfortunate happens to my competitors it will still be an experience to compete against people who are worlds away.

You might gain some time by switching the spring balance to the rear of the a car like 6k springs on the front and 6.5 or 7k springs on the rear depending on swaybar something like that can't say it will help you but it helped me.
I know my spring balance is rearward biased so the car has some funny behavior like any form of lift-off at high loads at speeds greater than 30 mph results in a oversteer condition so what ends up happening is that I'll be taking fast bends really tight using the gas pedal to point the car through the turn but it also gets the car unsettled on shallow corner exit its weird to experience the first time but once you get the hang of it, it almost feels natural.
YMMV but I picked up something like 3.5 seconds from just my rear springs alone but the car suits my driving style a bit better now so that's likely where all the time came from.
Coming from a Mustang where you can't really be precise and everything is throwing the car at turns just to make it get round it, the Yaris now feels familiar.

[ilikerice]

I will agree i will never know how good i am til i go against pro drivers. Also they spend their entire time making their cars autocross worthy. I havent been dedicating myself enough to autocross lately. Dragoncon coming up labor day so been working on costumes :pause for laughter to stop:.
I am very comfortable on my current setup. I almost never kick my rear out unless i really try. Understeer is nearly gone. I can usually get my yaris right where i want it. I may go with the smaller front sway bar. But i think thats all the suspension mods i will do. I need to get headers and custom midpipe w/ high flow cat

[justjesus]

Rice: sounds like some pretty damn racing! Long courses... FUN!!!!
what's ur current suspension set up?

Namer: sorry i didn't get a chance to see you run! I left at lunch. I was on 3 hrs of sleep and wanted to bail ASAP.

[ilikerice]

Thanks. I really wanna get a gopro and record these runs. I just cant throw that kinda money around right now.

I am running megan coilovers. I adjust the rears completely hard and the front mid soft/hard. 23mm UR rear swaybar. 15x7 rota gr3 rims wrapped in 225/50 hankook rs-3's.

[xnamerxx]

Thanks. I really wanna get a gopro and record these runs. I just cant throw that kinda money around right now.

I am running megan coilovers. I adjust the rears completely hard and the front mid soft/hard. 23mm UR rear swaybar. 15x7 rota gr3 rims wrapped in 225/50 hankook rs-3's.

If you want to go cheap and have a smartphone you can rubberband it to rv mirror and record that way.

No worries Jesus the heat that day was a killer, I got there kind of late and got stuck hot lapping behind the proparts civic.

[ilikerice]

Oooo.. thats a really good idea. Thanks namer

[justjesus]

Thanks for sharing the info, guys :)

[ilikerice]

no problem. anything for a little competition. no fun driving alone

[xnamerxx]

Fyi to anyone who owns the hr coilover kit the ksport top hats fit perfectly but you'll needto swap the bearings. A good spring size is 6-7 inches 8 will fit but youll have no adjustment for lowering.

[cali yaris]

when's the next SoCal autocross?

[xnamerxx]

Sdr is running one this weekend at Qualcomm in san diegodiego , im pretty sure ill be there sunday to do some last minute testing with the new springs. Otherwise its sept 24th at fontana.

[justjesus]

isnt there another one in San Diego on the 26th?

Garm wants to play, now that he's lost some weight? eh, garm? hehe

FYI, Adams has summer hours. 6, 7:40, and 8:50. Although, I haven't been there when they start on time for the 8:50 one. Last time, was waiting til almost 10 to run!


namer: thanks for that tidbit on the top hats :)

[xnamerxx]

Jesus you are correct. I don't keep up to date tabs on SD unless I'm Jonesing for another hit of the ax crack pipe.

Here is the SD schedule for the rest of the year.

http://www.sdr-scca.com/solo2/schedule/

[cali yaris]

yep. I want to play.

hmm, Aug 25-26. Might be fun to stay down there and do both days. Jesus?

[xnamerxx]

Let me know if your going down on the 25th-26th I want to see how close my lowly beast can get to the monster :thumbup:

[Jason@SportsCar]

Just an fyi if you have not run in SD before, 93db @ 50' is the sound limit, if your car is loud your event will be short lived. Make any necessary adjustments beforehand.

[xnamerxx]

Garm its a good thing you didn't go today the course was AWFUL no fun at all and it ate the hell out of my tires such a waste.

[justjesus]

Garm: hmmmm. Let me check the schedule !

Jason: Thanks for that heads up :thumbsup:


Namer: So you went to SD? Is registration similar to our Region's?

WOW. I'm glad I stood in Montebello, housesitting. With the AC on ;)

[xnamerxx]

Not quite, you register onsite at SD and if your not a member of sdr you have to buy a temporary membership or a perm if you choose.

Yeah I really wished I turned around and went home, that course was sooo tight at one point I dropped down into the teens just to make a corner had to shift into 1st. The ending was unsafe so right after the finish and I mean immediately there was a hard right that if you zoned out for a second like I tend to do meant hitting the cones and ruining your run so coming to almost a complete stop was a must. Mix that in with a course that was generally just very hard to read looking ahead just showed you a sea of cones rather than which direction you actually needed to go. Add in a surface that was so dirty you couldn't get traction and 100 degree weather and that was a terrible day. I spun my car for the first time and I've owned that thing for 5 years and not only did I spin it but I spun it hard and I was on the throttle when this happened but it was due to the course being so dirty.

[cali yaris]

Sounds like a challenging day. The Camarillo Airport autocross is wicked tight like that also. I think I've learned the most when I lost traction/control over the car.

"If you don't go over the line, you don't know where the line is" -- just a thought and a quote from someone who is faster than me.

[justjesus]

Damn, sounds like a rough day.

Garm, I don't remember saying that. LOL

[xnamerxx]

Ignore the template I forgot to change it from the last time it was used. (Not affiliated with Black Iron Racing.)

Gives you an idea of how rough this track was. I actually messed up the camber on my passenger wheel hitting a cone at some mph. I was running positive camber on that wheel and didn't even realize it till I came home.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS0B-bbmdj8&feature=g-upl

[justjesus]

Thanks for sharing!
I like it at 1:23 or so. WHOA.
looking at your speed, yeah, i can see what you mean. pretty slow. some of those turns, were way slow.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Ignore the template I forgot to change it from the last time it was used. (Not affiliated with Black Iron Racing.)

Gives you an idea of how rough this track was. I actually messed up the camber on my passenger wheel hitting a cone at some mph. I was running positive camber on that wheel and didn't even realize it till I came home.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS0B-bbmdj8&feature=g-upl

SD has some great course designers, and some that should be beaten with a cone. You think that was a painful finish, check the last two turns on this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYIqdMe_SOI

[xnamerxx]

Heres my first run when I spun it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q5Mvut1DFI&feature=g-upl

Not much better.

[xnamerxx]

SD has some great course designers, and some that should be beaten with a cone. You think that was a painful finish, check the last two turns on this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYIqdMe_SOI

All I can say about that was how many people spun, and how many course workers lynched the designer?

[justjesus]

ok, looking at the other videos, the course didn't look as bad as the first time i saw the first video.

Jason, who was that and what car? Sounds pretty good!

Namer: not only did you spin, you took those cones good! knocked those suckers down.

Man, now i'm getting the itch again.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Jason, who was that and what car? Sounds pretty good!



That was me in our old RX-8.

Another interesting SD course: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBpsxnBlE38

[xnamerxx]

As a whole the course wasn't bad, but it didn't flow very well and was very hard to read at speed and the beginning and ending were way to tight.
It didn't help that my tires were pretty cooked after 2 turns and the course wasn't cleaned very well.

Yeah I think that spin is what caused my strut to slipr, I have a pretty nasty impact mark on that tire.

[CrankyOldMan]

On a related note, I ran a road course autoX yesterday as STF (Grattan Speedway in Belding, MI) and got my ass handed to me by a Mazda 3. Not by a small margin, either. I'm sure there was a large amount of skill difference, but it just seems crazy that a 2.3 liter car (despite being 2900 lbs curb) is in the same class as our little egg.

On a lighter note, the wife came along to spectate and was really excited about it. So much so that she's willing to entertain ideas like performance mods as a worthwhile expenditure on a hobby. =)

[xnamerxx]

On a related note, I ran a road course autoX yesterday as STF (Grattan Speedway in Belding, MI) and got my ass handed to me by a Mazda 3. Not by a small margin, either. I'm sure there was a large amount of skill difference, but it just seems crazy that a 2.3 liter car (despite being 2900 lbs curb) is in the same class as our little egg.

On a lighter note, the wife came along to spectate and was really excited about it. So much so that she's willing to entertain ideas like performance mods as a worthwhile expenditure on a hobby. =)

There is a tire limit so the theoretical grip limit is far less on the Mazda 3 than it is on the Yaris.
If both cars were properly setup a Yaris would be in the range of 2080~ and the 3 would be in the 2500~. I firmly believe the Yaris will stomp a 3 even though it hasn't worked out quite like that for me:bellyroll:

[ilikerice]

agreed. I have yet to have a mazda3 beat me in my own class. but the mazdaspeed3 is a beast and I am floored on the handling they have if they run Rcomps

[ilikerice]

Ok, remember when I talked about my camera mount fail.. i finally got it off my phone and put it on youtube.. here you go, laughs are welcomed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UkZSkuWfGU&feature=g-upl

[b20vteg]

Ok, remember when I talked about my camera mount fail.. i finally got it off my phone and put it on youtube.. here you go, laughs are welcomed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UkZSkuWfGU&feature=g-upl

bahahahahaa nice :bellyroll:

[ilikerice]

Sorry, was unable to get any video today. Rubber Band trick with the phone just wasn't that good... wasn't able to get the phone positioned correctly to get any good video..

Some National Champs from SC showed up. Was another high horsepower/ RWD course today anyways.. thats, my excuse and im sticking to it.. I came in 4th out of 66 drivers in Pax. I feel I could have shaved another 1/2 second off though.

[ilikerice]

Here is someone else's run though, just to give you guys a look at what kinda course it was. Good buddy Shane in someone else S2000.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAmG_dun2NY&feature=player_embedded

[ilikerice]

Ok, so check it.. Guy from our region in Jacksonville made T-shirts for our annual North vs. South Shootout we have every year with the region. Our Jacksonville guys vs the Georgia guys and at the end we see who keeps the trophy. He ended up using the Fit vs Yaris because its usually a battle between us for 1st anyways..

[xnamerxx]

Keep us posted on who takes home the champ.

[ilikerice]

lol, will do.

[NJ Drive]

Prepping my car for STF now. Can't resist not running 225s on 7.5" and saving 20lbs doing it. Hopefully the new Goodyear/Dunlop due next year come in a 225/45/15... really don't want to run Hankooks. BF Goodrich is also coming out with what could be an ST candidate as well.

[xnamerxx]

Hope my talk at nationals pushed you to it :thumbup: JK

I was really happy with the R1R's but theres a new crop of tires coming out next year which might overtake the current king the Z2 Star Specs and Re-12's which but nothing is known until they get released but I didn't know about the goodyears finally they release a tire thats worth something.

If you feel like sharing :) how do you plan your setup?

My shocks are at Bilstein so there will be a baseline once they get completed, since even they didn't know how the HR's are valved. I'll post a dyno once I get them back so at least someone else can get some use out of them.

[justjesus]

i like that tee shirt ! !

[ilikerice]

If you want, you can purchase this Tee on his facebook shop. Even does custom shirts if you want your Yaris and someone else's also on the back.. check it out.
http://www.facebook.com/IsizaTees

[cali yaris]

Today, 10:43 AM

uh..Jesus.... aren't you at work? :laugh:

[ilikerice]

LMAO.. check my time stamp now.. I actually woke up 30 mins ago and about to head to work. After I posted that I did look at the clock and scream "DAMMIT, stayed up too late again"

[xnamerxx]

Well since my shocks have been back at Bilstein getting revalved I've been stuck running around stock for the past month or so but went to a race this weekend with some parts I've been given and just wanted to share my experiences going back to "stock".

A few weeks back I was given a set of Megan stock replacement shocks to test out and was really surprised by how well they performed it was a quite the shock...
Well I took the rear Megan's off and replaced them with some rear Tokico HTS's I have sitting at my house just so I can get a bit more rebound damping.

Well after my runs the I can say a few things about the car stock compared to my race setup, with my stock setup the car doesn't like to turn in and has no traction on corner exit it was quite frustrating. With that being said the car performed about as well as I could hope but going over my data it was quite clear I had lost a ton of lateral traction even for the tires I was running.


I can't wait to go back to STF trim.

[justjesus]

ilikerice: cool !


uh..Jesus.... aren't you at work? :laugh:

Break time! I'm allowed....legally. :)

[xnamerxx]

Well finally got the shocks back from Bilstein...WOW is all I can say the difference is night and day but that might partially be from the massive difference from before to now. In either case the car is so sharp on turn in that I'm almost unsure if its going to understeer or not.

But stupid me forgot to ask the shock dyno graph so didn't get that.

[xnamerxx]

Well got a hold of the shockdyno sheet if anyone wants.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g21/xnamerxx/Untitled-1.jpg

[Jason@SportsCar]

Well finally got the shocks back from Bilstein...WOW is all I can say the difference is night and day but that might partially be from the massive difference from before to now. In either case the car is so sharp on turn in that I'm almost unsure if its going to understeer or not.

But stupid me forgot to ask the shock dyno graph so didn't get that.

Did you have droop limiters installed so you don't have to use zip ties to hold in your rear springs anymore?

[xnamerxx]

I didn't...that would have been a good idea guess there's always next time. It doesn't seem to be as much of a problem with the 400lb springs as it was with the 350lb springs for whatever reason, but there's still about a .5" of droop travel I could stand to lose, but its okay for now.

[ilikerice]

Ok, So my latest autocross event didn't go so well.. I got killed by my rival honda fit by a honda fit.. I wonder if my tires had anything to do with my performance... these are RS-3's by the way if you cant tell

So my question would be is there a certain point in these tires where the best compound for grip is no longer available? I ask because It was very hard for me to tell because my tires have worn over time while i am doing the driving of course. I would like to blame my performance on my tires but if I was just having a bad day then I will take that also

[Jason@SportsCar]

Ok, So my latest autocross event didn't go so well.. I got killed by my rival honda fit by a honda fit.. I wonder if my tires had anything to do with my performance... these are RS-3's by the way if you cant tell

So my question would be is there a certain point in these tires where the best compound for grip is no longer available? I ask because It was very hard for me to tell because my tires have worn over time while i am doing the driving of course. I would like to blame my performance on my tires but if I was just having a bad day then I will take that also

All tires have a point at which they heat cycle out... For some it happens well before the tires wear out, others will stay soft beyond the treads useful life. Also keep in mind now that the weather in most parts of the country is turning colder, you are not on a tire that works well without heat.

I found that we could run the Hankook down to the cords on our STX RX-8, but that was a heavier car that undoubtedly used them up much quicker than your car. Try a new set, if you still get killed you will know it was not the tires. :tongue: And then you can always switch back to the old set.

[xnamerxx]

^What he said :)

Is it just me or is that top rim look bent?

[ilikerice]

Haha.. yea. Its bent. I gotta retire those rims. I got one more event left of the season. So will have to get new rims and tires for christmas. I will be borrowing a set on my last event. Gonna keep these as my DD rims. They hold air and dont cause any vibrations up front. Cant affords pretty new rims and another set of rims/tires for next year

[xnamerxx]

No worries the lip doesn't seal the tire so its no big deal. I just got a set of rims and tires even though its not exactly what I want I'm sure it'll work for me right now. Sometimes you gotta run what you can vs the best thing you can.

How much did the fit beat you by?

[ilikerice]

ugh.. I am too embarrassed to even post this..
http://buccaneerregion.org/ce9-jax8-12.html

Yea, its just the lip, BUT a couple national guys said that if I go to a national even they wont let me run because there could possible be a crack in the rim. Which I understand. I just ordered some Azenis 615k tires for the red rims.. these will be my daily drivers for a while. hopefully will get enough funds to get new rims and tires by christmas

[xnamerxx]

It seems your region has amassed quite the army of Yarii :)

That's a pretty bad beat lets see if it continues with new tires though.

[ilikerice]

yeppers.. next event I will be running the 205/50 azenis 615k. its the last event of the season so I dont expect to be much competition.

funny side note: someone from Jacksonville tried to argue that I was suppose to be in Street Prepared because of my "slicks"

[xnamerxx]

yeppers.. next event I will be running the 205/50 azenis 615k. its the last event of the season so I dont expect to be much competition.

funny side note: someone from Jacksonville tried to argue that I was suppose to be in Street Prepared because of my "slicks"

LOL should have told him to walk over to the protest booth.

We have a CS street tire class miata in my region running the 615k and he's been amazingly fast with them...keep them cold though they don't take heat well.

[xnamerxx]

Well I just wanted to update this thread with my new setup (tires+custom shocks).

I paxed 35th out of 140 in a region that has multiple jacket national champions. There was easily another 2-3 seconds left in my run, I was very dirty since I didn't quite know how to drive it.

This car is amazingly easy to drive at 8/10ths I've never driven such an easy car to drive if I didn't screw my line up so bad I could have easily paxed top 10 against some of the best drivers and cars in the country. I can't say enough good things about how easy this car is to drive on the limit even with the slick surface at Fontana. I'm loving this car so much right now its just such easy car to hold at the limit.

Fast Run (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmn7cO0shSs&feature=g-upl)

[justjesus]

^ in other words... it's easy to drive and you like it?

hehehe

congrats on your 1st place :)

[Jason@SportsCar]

Sounds like you are getting a lot of inside wheel spin.

[xnamerxx]

I was...not quite sure where the problem is stemming from but I'm going to keep the car as is for a bit until I get a bit more comfortable with it. You can see how terrible my line was so I'm going to work on that for a bit then correct the last few problems with the car.
Overall I think its about 90% where I want it but it probably needs to be a bit tighter.

Jesus...You could say that ;) I'm really loving this car right now. Thanks I think its only the 2nd time I've pulled a first so I'm super stoked right now.

[ilikerice]

Last event of the year just happened Sunday. In the overall points for the year I was 3rd in my region. I couldn't get 1st even if I did come in first last event. BUT 2nd was only .6 points away. So all I needed to do was beat they one guy and I would have 2nd in the season.

And the result, I did very well, I did end up coming in 2nd on Sunday. I did beat him in Pax. He ended up in 4th or 5th, can't remember.

I did have a co-driver this event. He did good. Sorry no videos. Hoping to get a GoPro this christmas.. maybe.. I got alot of things on my "want" list.

So that puts me 2nd place for this season in the Buccaneer Region. I will post up the results when they are on the website. 10th place last year. I think I did exceptionally well this year.

[xnamerxx]

Nice :)

So whats on the "want" list?

[ilikerice]

Custom mid pipe
Light weight rims
Fresh RS-3s
Thats the realistic list. The fantasy list is much bigger

[xnamerxx]

Good list, just make sure your mid pipe doesn't use a center muffler it'll be a hateful experience on the streets.

[xnamerxx]

Well today was the first time in a long time I didn't have to run a PAX class to have competitors.
I was given a DC header to test against the header I'm making and I hate to say this but the DC header is a dog below 4k rpm's. I was seeing some top speeds way higher than what I would normally see but when the engine dropped below 3.5k it was rough the car just didn't want to move.

I lost class by 3/10ths (racer excuse - I have been sick and had some pretty severe vertigo which makes going around corners interesting) but the car still performed awesome, even though it was a dog down low the power gain up top sort of made up for it, so I had lots of tail out action and I was drifting around some of the corners because I could get the car going fast enough before the corners for liftoff oversteer to occur. I didn't bother taking a camera this time since I figured my results would have been pretty useless since I'm still recovering from a inner ear issue. Still had a great time though I'm loving the car more and more with these custom shocks and new tires.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Well today was the first time in a long time I didn't have to run a PAX class to have competitors.
I was given a DC header to test against the header I'm making and I hate to say this but the DC header is a dog below 4k rpm's. I was seeing some top speeds way higher than what I would normally see but when the engine dropped below 3.5k it was rough the car just didn't want to move.

I lost class by 3/10ths (racer excuse - I have been sick and had some pretty severe vertigo which makes going around corners interesting) but the car still performed awesome, even though it was a dog down low the power gain up top sort of made up for it, so I had lots of tail out action and I was drifting around some of the corners because I could get the car going fast enough before the corners for liftoff oversteer to occur. I didn't bother taking a camera this time since I figured my results would have been pretty useless since I'm still recovering from a inner ear issue. Still had a great time though I'm loving the car more and more with these custom shocks and new tires.

Get that thing on the dyno.

[xnamerxx]

Yep, I'm waiting to see if my co worker is coming back this week otherwise I'll setup an appointment with RMR or Church's this Fri.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Yep, I'm waiting to see if my co worker is coming back this week otherwise I'll setup an appointment with RMR or Church's this Fri.

Is that the same place you did your baseline runs? Or will you switch it while you are there?

[xnamerxx]

I've got a baseline from here at work but I won't be able to directly compare it to anything else unless I get another dyno from here which I can't guarantee.

If my coworker doesn't show up this week I'll have to get new baselines, which is basically the car setup as it is, its not ideal but it is what is. RMR is my first choice but if they're unavailable I'd go to church's as a backup. But it will be dynoed at the same place before and after so the results are comparable.

[justjesus]

I'll say it again. You and that car looked good out there. I liked how the tail came out just enough, then it gripped and you pulled ahead. It was sweet.

And you outpaxed me! Punk. LOL - I mean, congrats on that finish :)

[xnamerxx]

LOL I didn't PAX that much higher :iono:

I'm loving the car more and more its just such a blast to drive at the limit , you pretty much drive it with the throttle. I just need to learn to left foot brake and I can unlock a bunch of speed :) I'm still a few seconds off a top 10 PAX but it'll happen with some more practice...I hope.

[justjesus]

yup yup - not too much more. I'm sure you'd kill me if I were in STF.

Too bad I never picked up left foot braking with the Civic.... I was getting a handle on it with the Yaris back in my CST days ( I practiced on the street. I don't daily the Civic, so I can't do the same)

[xnamerxx]

Well today was the trial by fire for my long tube headers and man what a difference they seemed to make. I was actually having trouble getting power down, but the car worked out fantastic and I finally managed to beat the Mazda 3 thats been whooping me all season by a second so I'm pretty happy about that.

I don't know why sound didn't record on the video but that probably explains why the thing was beeping.

Last race of 2012 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFmR2xiZvws&feature=youtu.be)

[justjesus]

aw man. i didn't know about that race.
we could have co driven!
i thought my next race would be end of January!

[justjesus]

...or Adams

[xnamerxx]

Sorry bout that, but it was just a test day for me to make sure nothing broke. I didn't fail sound, which is always a good thing, but I have a bad in cabin drone I need to figure out.

[ilikerice]

2nd place Overall Pax for the year..

1st place was a Mini Cooper S in DS

3rd was a 300Z in SSM

[xnamerxx]

Well the results for the event san Diego finally came in,i managed to place 13th in pax which is something I've never done. I even came ahead of some jacket holding nationals winners which was a bit of a surprise to me.

[Steve35]

Well the results for the event san Diego finally came in,i managed to place 13th in pax which is something I've never done. I even came ahead of some jacket holding nationals winners which was a bit of a surprise to me.


A very well earned victory in STF!!

Steve

[Jason@SportsCar]

Well the results for the event san Diego finally came in,i managed to place 13th in pax which is something I've never done. I even came ahead of some jacket holding nationals winners which was a bit of a surprise to me.

Nice work. Tough crowd down there. :thumbsup:

[ilikerice]

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=g-Force+Rival

New tire all the ST people are buying up for this year.. This may be my next set

[xnamerxx]

I just picked up a set of Z2's for street/backup/rain duty. Still sticking with my Toyo's until its proven one of the newcomers is faster, which I hope happens, I hate the Toyos.

The only thing that worries me is the "rivals" are really heavy, which could be a bad thing on such a light care like ours. I would be picking up something like 7lbs a tire and ~30 lbs is a pretty significant amount of weight.

Also don't forget but Kumho has the 720 street tires coming out as well so in the next few months we'll see who has the real magic.

[ilikerice]

Yea. Agreed. Weight is a killer.

Oh snap! I forgot about the v720s. I will prob try to squeeze every foot i can out of these azenis 615k. Will wait and see

[xnamerxx]

Just informed the weight might be off so we'll see.

Yeah my contis are so bald that I felt it was safer to drive my Mustang...when its pouring rain today. I srsly can't wait for my new tires to show up driving that gas hog around is killing me.

Yeah but its not just the v720, the new Toyo's are supposed to be out this year along with the new bridgestones so this new crop of tires is really good for choice hopefully a magic last forever rcomp level of grip tire pops up. One can dream :evil:

[Jason@SportsCar]

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=g-Force+Rival

New tire all the ST people are buying up for this year.. This may be my next set

Just got back from NOLA and the BFG Rival launch... Seems like a good tire, but I don't think much can be taken from this product launch. There were four stations set up to test the Rival against a number of competitors, but no real data and no lap times were provided (or taken). The entire event relied completely on butt dyno, which I feel is useless - all to often things that feel fast are slow, and vice verse.

A little background: we were not allowed to launch any of the cars (they were saving the clutches) so it was impossible to get a read on off the line bite. We had to run all of the autox courses in 2nd gear only, and we were not allowed to left foot brake (they had problems with people doing this the first day and overheating the brakes). None of the cars were optimized to benefit/maximize any one tire, all of the pressures were set to match the door jam plate, making it as fair as possible for all. I was told none of the autox cars had any type of performance adjustments, even the alignment was OE spec.

The skid pad was not done on a flat surface, there was a big crown in the lot, which made the one piece of data (iPad G meter) completely useless. And the "instructor" in the passengers seat was shouting out peak Gs, there was no sustained numbers - and as you might imagine without a flat lot it was easy to trick the meter and generate a higher number. This test was the BFG Sport COMP-2, Rival and R1-S.

The short autocross course was done with the Subaru STi. The one thing that was a little suspect here is that while TC appeared to be turned off some level of Stability Control was still on, which made it difficult to tell what the tire was doing and what the car was doing. The Toyo (R1R) was no match for the weight of the STi, it always feels like the wheels are going to scrape the ground when you put them on a big car. The Hankook (RS3) was a great match for the STi, it allowed excellent mid-corner rotation, and the car could be placed exactly where you wanted. The BFG felt as though it was bogging the car down, it was tight in the middle of the turn, and the rear of the car would simply not rotate - as if it had to much stick, or as if the Stability control was binding the car up.

The long autox course paired the BFG and Hankook up again, this time on the E46 BMW M3. On the BMW I felt as though each tire had an advantage on a certain part of the the course. The BFG was far superior in the high speed transition section, as the car was much more stable. However, in both high and low speed turns I liked the rotation offered by the Hankook much better.

On the road course we had a the ex Miller Cup Mustangs (FR500s), with the BFG versus the Falken (615K). This was another exercise that I did not find particularly useful due to the limited number of laps and having done no previous laps at the facility. The BFG seemed to be more stable under braking, had more grip on corner entry, and put power down better than the Falken, but without laps times or data there is no way to actually measure the difference in performance.

So far the best information on this new tire comes from the Tire Rack. They have done a good bit of testing including comparative tests, and they have a number of very experienced drivers on staff. I don't think the test results are posted on the TR website yet, but they showed them at NOLA, and the Rival did beat all of the competitor tires they ran it against. The test results were typically very close, within tenths. The other nugget of info we got is the BFG Rival likes to be stretched, not pinched. One of the fitments covered was a 235 on a 9" wide wheels. Sounds very R1R like in the sense that smaller sizes are going to be the ticket.

I am sure it wont be long before we see some real world results with the Rival, and it certainly appears it will be a challenger in all the classes, and due to the size line up it should own the classes with bigger cars.

BFG put on a first class event, and if you live in the area NOLA is a great facility, racers down there are very lucky.

[FHT_Racing]

Great info!

[xnamerxx]

Its good to have some first hand knowledge. I still fear the newcomers won't overclass the existing Toyo's on the ligher cars, either from gearing or because they were engineered for 2500+ lb cars. In either case I'm glad new tires exist as I hate the existing Toyo's they feel like driving on erasers.

[xnamerxx]

Had our first event out of the year today at Fontana. The new setup on the car works amazingly now its just my turn to learn how to drive the car correctly.

I'm kinda pissed at myself I ended up PAXing 40th, but I had a +1 run that would have put me in 15th place, above some big name national champions. Oh well guess I have next event to fix it.

[justjesus]

Jason: Thanks for the info

ilikerice: congrats on the 2nd place finish

namer: fix it :)

[xnamerxx]

So I'm registering for the SD national tour, which is on Easter btw such a bad choice, and I decided to check out the Georgia National Tour reg list just to see how STF is stacking up around the country.
The Georgia tour STF is one of the biggest classes, but its looking a little empty over here on the west coast. Almost makes me wish I was in Florida over So cal...almost.

Well got the first event of the year at San Diego tomorrow I'm hoping for a better performance than my last event.

[ilikerice]

Sweet, good luck. Yea, I will be at the Dixie tour this year.. unfortunately our first event here in Buccanner region was canceled for feb. so that leaving me with little practice before the Dixie National in March.. I may need to hit up some South Carolina or Jax event before.. Still need better tires before Nationals.. I really dont wanna run these Azenis

[NJ Drive]

I'm really excited for the season to begin as well. I'll be doing the DC, NJ, & Toledo Pros, Dover Tour, Devens Match Tour, and Nationals. I wish the Dixie Tour wasn't so far... good numbers in the class.

[Jason@SportsCar]

So I'm registering for the SD national tour, which is on Easter btw such a bad choice, and I decided to check out the Georgia National Tour reg list just to see how STF is stacking up around the country.
The Georgia tour STF is one of the biggest classes, but its looking a little empty over here on the west coast. Almost makes me wish I was in Florida over So cal...almost.

Well got the first event of the year at San Diego tomorrow I'm hoping for a better performance than my last event.

STF as it sits makes about as much sense as B-Spec, its a good bit of money to be one of the slowest cars out there - in both Solo and Club Racing you can go a lot faster, have more people to play with and do it cheaper in other classes. Any time you have to break new ground, like you did with your header, that is seen as a barrier to those without the resources. Without some changes I doubt STF or B-Spec will become as big as the classes they are following/displacing.

[xnamerxx]

Your right.

But that barrier exists with any of the existing classes, $4k shocks for stock class or $1k tires that last 50 runs even for the cheapest classes. It would make much more sense to buy an existing race car that someone else dumped money into. As with any form of racing those with the money/means will probably perform better than you. As I see it right now I can't think of any class of racing that doesn't have a huge initial investment. Unless you enjoy racing 20-40yo cars and the maintenance headaches that come with it.

I could easily buy a Spec Miata or a Corvette and not have fun sitting back of the pack against a guy who has the means to replace his motor every season or a guy who can invest in brand new tires each event. I'm only surprised that there aren't more Civic Si's or Scion TC or whatever joining events. FWD cars in general don't have much membership here(as you know), could be because FWD is the devil, but not many people seem to race them. If I drove off to AZ i'd have some more people to play with but i'd probably be much faster than them.



So finished my event in SD today, my Co-Driver managed to have an unofficial PAX of 5th place but will probably drop a few places, I was only able to get unofficial of 8th place. I'm sure we'll both drop a few places once everything is finalized but still an impressive showing none the less.

[Steve35]

Thank you for letting me drive your car yesterday. You've done a great job on the car. The balance is great, it puts the power down very well and it has power!
Get a race set and get more seat time we'll see you start getting 1st all the time.:thumbsup:

Steve

[Jason@SportsCar]

Your right.

But that barrier exists with any of the existing classes, $4k shocks for stock class or $1k tires that last 50 runs even for the cheapest classes. It would make much more sense to buy an existing race car that someone else dumped money into. As with any form of racing those with the money/means will probably perform better than you. As I see it right now I can't think of any class of racing that doesn't have a huge initial investment. Unless you enjoy racing 20-40yo cars and the maintenance headaches that come with it.

I could easily buy a Spec Miata or a Corvette and not have fun sitting back of the pack against a guy who has the means to replace his motor every season or a guy who can invest in brand new tires each event. I'm only surprised that there aren't more Civic Si's or Scion TC or whatever joining events. FWD cars in general don't have much membership here(as you know), could be because FWD is the devil, but not many people seem to race them. If I drove off to AZ i'd have some more people to play with but i'd probably be much faster than them.



So finished my event in SD today, my Co-Driver managed to have an unofficial PAX of 5th place but will probably drop a few places, I was only able to get unofficial of 8th place. I'm sure we'll both drop a few places once everything is finalized but still an impressive showing none the less.

It is not a barrier in stock, it is a known quantity. There is an existing setup path for nearly every front running car out there. And the reality does not match the hype when it comes to shocks in stock, even those with purpose built mono-tubes are not typically spending $4k. Yes, the tires are expensive, and you need fresh ones to run up front, but that is known factor coming in.

What you have to battle in STF is the unknown cost. It is one thing to spend the money to replicate a winning setup and fail because as a driver you could not get it done. It is a completely different ball game when you are trying something new, and don't know what money you will see a return on in terms of performance and ability to sell it later - a set of stock class $4k :wink: shocks are worth something when you are done, a set of one-off STF shocks will have a much smaller resale market.

Quit spinning your wheel (the inside one) and go for an FSP build. :biggrin: Its only money. :evil:

[ilikerice]

Yes. I will be going fsp by summer. I want lsd so bad. U got a spare trans w lsd u wanna get rid of? Lol

[xnamerxx]

Jason quit trying to make me setup my car to be a more hateful DD experience LOL :biggrin:

There's no arguing that, there is that perception that you'll need the MOTON/KONI/PENKSE whatever just to win and its hard to argue when you see some amazingly fast cars running on whatever custom shocks they're running. I only know what I've been quoted and not wanting to make any particular company look back it was well above $5k, but that's probably not the typical cost.

You know I don't think my co-driver Steve35 had the inside spin problems I was having, might be due to his better right foot control but I don't think he mentioned it to me.

[Steve35]

Nope, no big wheel spin problems for me. The car was great, could it be better? Of course.

I wish you had your data logger...


Steve

[Jason@SportsCar]

Jason quit trying to make me setup my car to be a more hateful DD experience LOL :biggrin:



Daily drive the Mustang. :thumbsup:

LSD, flywheel, 13"x9" wheels, ECU, no cats. :cool:

[NJ Drive]

Does anyone know if the stock front sway bar is solid or hollow?

[CrankyOldMan]

Yes. I will be going fsp by summer. I want lsd so bad. U got a spare trans w lsd u wanna get rid of? Lol

Hell, I'm about ready to pull the trigger on LSD/gear ratios/final drive and go straight up EP. I don't plan on going national with it, and I don't AutoX to win, so being laughably un-competitive in that class is no big deal. It's just where my egg will land when I get done scrambling it.

[xnamerxx]

It didn't feel heavy enough to me to be solid so I'm going to hazard a guess that its hollow.

Got Z2 street tires on, I'm pretty sure there not faster than the Toyo's, but they have the best steering feel of any tire I've ever driven on, there so unbelievably sharp, definitely one of the best street tires I've ever driven on.

[ilikerice]

Hell, I'm about ready to pull the trigger on LSD/gear ratios/final drive and go straight up EP. I don't plan on going national with it, and I don't AutoX to win, so being laughably un-competitive in that class is no big deal. It's just where my egg will land when I get done scrambling it.

I will probably end up in SM class by the end of the year. I really wanna go turbo. I think I made my debut last year by coming in 2nd overall and now I just wanna have some fun. I don't wanna get Rcomps yet til I get an LSD though.

[NJ Drive]

It didn't feel heavy enough to me to be solid so I'm going to hazard a guess that its hollow.

Got Z2 street tires on, I'm pretty sure there not faster than the Toyo's, but they have the best steering feel of any tire I've ever driven on, there so unbelievably sharp, definitely one of the best street tires I've ever driven on.

Thanks. I'm trying to decide if it's worth forgoing the front sway bar altogether or reinstall a smaller one.

What size ZIIs did you go with? I have a pair of 225/45/16 for the front. The Star Specs were already a great tire, can't wait to see how the ZIIs run. Pretty sure by now you've heard that the 195 Toyos aren't the only size that gets the good stuff all the way down either, according to Mr. Lugod.

[xnamerxx]

Well I kept the front bar for body roll reasons, I also didn't like the way the car felt running without it. The steering is really really numb without a front bar but you can get power down a little bit better. After running without it I found it was just better to run more spring in the back and call it a day.


Both the 50 and 55 get it afaik, but Lugod's in my region so I can ask him next event. From what I heard from Andy Hollis it was just those 2 sizes.

I went with the 225/45/16.

I don't expect any of the newcomers to overshadow the R1R's, even though I hate that tire with a passion it does work really well.

[NJ Drive]

One thing I've learned is that the clock trumps 'feel' any day. I remember first running my STR S2000 w/o a rear bar. It felt weird, I had to make adjustments to my driving, but ultimately was much faster w/o it than with it. I'm still kicking myself for being stubborn at Nationals in 2010 for not removing it because I didn't think it was quicker. Never again.

[xnamerxx]

Well yes and no, when going over my data it always showed that I had more corner speed with a bar than without, but I had better exit speed with the bar. My setup wasn't optimized for either bar or no bar so you never really got to know for sure if bar or no bar was better. Once I figured out the spring balance it felt better and was quite a bit faster than no bar on the previous setup. I think having the extra compliance over bumps is enough to make having a front bar worth it, rather than compensating with extra stiff springs.

Just for S n G's here is data from the last event of last year.

Data from a Miata course. I suck at braking.
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/812583_448657248538557_654668714_o.jpg

[Jason@SportsCar]

Thanks. I'm trying to decide if it's worth forgoing the front sway bar altogether or reinstall a smaller one.

What size ZIIs did you go with? I have a pair of 225/45/16 for the front. The Star Specs were already a great tire, can't wait to see how the ZIIs run. Pretty sure by now you've heard that the 195 Toyos aren't the only size that gets the good stuff all the way down either, according to Mr. Lugod.

Based on the OE 24.3mm spare bar I have I believe they are solid. It has no crimp marks on the ends, and based on its size it feels to heavy to be hollow. If you can find one there are 23.3mm OE bars out there, I have one on the HP car, came from an 07' sedan.

[NJ Drive]

Based on the OE 24.3mm spare bar I have I believe they are solid. It has no crimp marks on the ends, and based on its size it feels to heavy to be hollow. If you can find one there are 23.3mm OE bars out there, I have one on the HP car, came from an 07' sedan.

Thanks for the reply Jason. I'm pretty sure that I have at least a 25mm front bar on my car(SE) too so I'm trying to eliminate as much on-throttle wheelspin as possible.

Namer, what spring rates were you running at the time with no bar?

[xnamerxx]

290p/260p
350/350

[NJ Drive]

Initially I was planning on staggering heavier in the front w/o a bar and give it a go. My wheelbase is a little longer than yours too so behavior under braking might not be as pronounced.

Your data acquisition is nice too.

[xnamerxx]

So the more I stagger rear roll stiffness the more liftoff/brake oversteer I get, there was a fine line from nice rotation to fwd drift car. Just having the rear spring stagger gave me enough front end accel traction that inside spin wasn't such a bad problem, I still complain about it but its mostly due to me getting back on it too soon when the front inside wheel has no load and is at a sharp angle.

Now I'm not positive this is true so take it as here-say but you can't transfer load dynamically from the left front to the right front by using stiffer springs can you can do so from the left front to the right rear and vice versa so taking load off the front by using stiffer rear springs seemed to be the way to go in getting some more front end bite. I still feel I need -4 camber to fix to get the Toyos happy but I haven't pursued that path yet.

[racerb]

Finally ran the Yaris in STF with the local SCCA group, was the only car in class but turned fairly respectable time. Only mods so far, 23mm UR rear bar, K&N drop-in filter, and some rock hard Goodyear Eagle GT tires.

http://www.ncrscca.com/sites/default/files/results/solo/2012/07_track_stars_charity_auto-x_fin.htm

racerb

[ilikerice]

good job racerb. imagine what it CAN do now.. lol.. was that just a "all my other cars are down right now, lets just run the yaris" event? or will we see more STF mods to the yaris and more/better results?

[racerb]

Planning on doing about everything possible to prep the Yaris to the maximum of STF rules. I have been also concidering a B-Spec Yaris, but with an earlier chassis, 2007-2008 model from one of the salvage car sites, really cheap that way. Here is one of the salvage sites I mentioned....
http://www.salvageworld.net/search.php?Country=USA&Region=&Vtype=V&Make=TOYOTA&Model=YARIS&Minyear=2007&Maxyear=2009&x=52&y=11

racerb

[cali yaris]

the more liftoff/brake oversteer I get, there was a fine line from nice rotation to fwd drift car.

yep. That's really fun with 300+ to the wheels. I've done some power slides that made my passengers wonder what the heck was happening. :laugh:

[xnamerxx]

Well just wanted to add my feedback for the z2's.
I ran first session on my R1R's and second session on my z2's and I was about a second faster with my larger diameter z2 vs the R1R's. Had to go into the data to figure out why, but the limit of the Toyo's and the dunlops appear to be about the same with the z2's having a slighly higher limit, what made the Dunlops so much faster was that I was able to keep the car on the limit from the entrance of the turn to the exit.

[racerb]

Thanks, good info as I'm still trying to decide on tires for this season!

racerb :clap:

[xnamerxx]

I wanted to do a back to back between my R1R's(195/50/15) with about 50 runs on them and my brand new z2's(225/45/16) to see how much of difference I would have between them.
The toyo R1R's have tons of grip but are a really really numb tire that doesn't have great turn in feel and requires lots of camber to work correctly. I was running at best 66.2 on my Toyos and the car was skiddish hard to control and very very loose. Tire pressure was set at 30 psi.
Switching to the z2s later in the day after I had finished my runs on the R1Rs, the z2s were sharper had more overall cornering grip, but they didn't let go quite as easily as the R1Rs so the car didn't want to rotate very well at low speed. The biggest thing I liked about these tires was that I could get the slip angles pretty bad and it would still hold on, and I mean wheel cranked really really far over, the tire would just scream and eventually pull over, these tires require a lot of work to get the most out of them, but seem to be a touch heat sensitive(at least on my car). above 130 degree's they give up slighly. No where near as bad as the Toyo's but I didn't quite have the same results at the STX BMWs.


Car setup
Front
Camber -3.5 degrees
Caster 5 degrees
Toe 0"
Rear
Toe .2" in
Camber didn't bother checking

Dunlops (42.5 psi) 16x7 OZ Chrono HT
Toyo's (30 psi) 15x7 Kosei K1R I think


Going over my data I was able to stay on the limit longer with the z2 than I was with the R1Rs. The r1rs seem to hold about 1.1gs according to the data and the z2 were holding 1.15 steady state but I did lose a bit of acceleration going to the taller tire.

These results are subjective as the course was very very dirty in the morning when I ran the toyos, I was picking up OPR and rocks like no ones business, but it felt quite a bit more clean in the afternoon. The surface was asphalt so I don't know if the results will carry over to concrete. On a side note this was the first time I didn't have horrible shoulder wear on a tire after an AutoX run so at least for camber limited cars I would say the z2 is a good pick. Overall I think the Z2 is going to be a tire to have in the future.


So I went further into my data and I was faster on the Toyos for the most part but I was having some pretty bad issues with the Toyos just letting go out of nowhere. Not sure if it was a course issue or not but it was something I was experiencing.

[justjesus]

hmmm. interesting info, Namer. Especially the last part about the toyos being a bit faster for the most part.

Damn. I really need to sell some wheels and do a little more prep work on the Yaris.

I just signed onto SD regions' site, so I'll be looking to run some events there. I'll be alternating between the cars. hehe... in pursuit of learning and developing as a driver.


Thanks for sharing your findings with the community.

[xnamerxx]

i think there was something wrong with the course when i ran with the toyos, the car was really loose on the edge, almost like driving on dirt or oil.

[NJ Drive]

Just wondering why you chose 42psi for the ZIIs? Seems very high for a light car like the Yaris. Dunlops also don't reach their prime until after a couple events or a couple weeks of street use.

[xnamerxx]

I varied the pressures from 38-45 and was fastest with 42. I treated them like the old Z1s for pressure and kept them on the high side.

At 42 I ran a 65.282
At 44 I ran a 65.537
At 38 I ran a 66.235
At 40 I ran a 65.713

Going with temps on the tires the center was still cold at 42 psi and even at 44 but the car felt quite a bit more stable transitionally at 42 than it did at 44 but at 44 it felt as if I could hold the corner better.

Here is a screenshot of my fastest runs with both the Toyo and the Dunlops. For whatever reason I had more confidence driving on the Dunlops vs the Toyos, I'm pretty sure it was due to something on the track but I'll have to test this again at another place to be sure.
Red is Toyo
Blue is Dunlop
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/859104_454947607909521_537721889_o.jpg

[NJ Drive]

Interesting. They'll get better with use. Is your site asphalt or concrete? Air temps?

[justjesus]

Namer, we could always do testing at Adams! !
Tuesday nights (and some saturdays as well)