Something that just PISSES me off...

[sleey0]

I can no longer find fuel without ethanol where I live. Sad, sad day.

I am not a big believer in ethanol saving the environment or doing shit really.

All it does it possibly hurt your engine in the long run.

I even read an article that some gas stations are actually advertising 100% gas / no ethanol.

What the FRACK has this world come to?

Reminds me of Daybreakers: "Now serving 30% REAL blood!"

For fucks sake....Just gimme gas!

[tk-421]

Originally Posted by sleey0

I am not a big believer in ethanol saving the environment or doing shit really.

I agree, at least as far as corn ethanol, which is definitely NOT the answer to our environmental troubles. Corn should be exclusively grown for food. Using it for anything else removes the balance between food availability and demand, hence making corn more expensive for everyone else.

Not to mention that ethanol is not that efficient anyway. You need a lot of corn to make a little ethanol.

All it does it hurt your engine in the long run.

This I'm not so sure about. Do you have some info you'd like to share on the subject?

[Astroman]

They did that here too.

[rningonfumes]

In minimal ratios, ethanol doesn't hurt the engine but when you get to higher ratios of ethanol vs gasoline mix, the ethanol wears out certain components on your engine because it is more corrosive than gasoline ie, the seals and what not.

If you look up E85 and flexfuel vehicles, you'll find that E85 is 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline. At such ratios it is only recommended in cars which can handle the fuel mainly because of the corrosive tendencies of ethanol on the parts that are affected by it. Flexfuel vehicles means that there was as substitute or beefed up version of a component which would normally be eaten up by the ethanol.

[henry33]

ethanol is shit I am so glad that we do not use this in here

[tk-421]

Originally Posted by rningonfumes

In minimal ratios, ethanol doesn't hurt the engine but when you get to higher ratios of ethanol vs gasoline mix, the ethanol wears out certain components on your engine because it is more corrosive than gasoline ie, the seals and what not.

If you look up E85 and flexfuel vehicles, you'll find that E85 is 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline. At such ratios it is only recommended in cars which can handle the fuel mainly because of the corrosive tendencies of ethanol on the parts that are affected by it. Flexfuel vehicles means that there was as substitute or beefed up version of a component which would normally be eaten up by the ethanol.

Thanks for the info!

[chrisj]

So there is a conspiracy, then? I see lots of those idiot Tahoes on the road that say FlexFuel, so because GM can't make their cars last as long as Toyotas, they're gonna Ethanol/FlexFuel our little cars to death? :(

[UTVitz]

Interesting to see this post-I couldn't agree more-I absolutely do not want to put it in my cars and found one local premium grade "Phillips/Conoco" station that said they were not going to put ethanol in. I go out of my way to use just this station. I once got some gas at a local Chevron with the "warning" sticker on the pump about containing up to 10% ethanol and since we don't have vapor recovery on our pump nozzles you get a good whiff of the fumes. The ethanol mix has a strange sweet smell that regular fuel does not. Many mechanics I trust have said don't worry about it, but MTBE oxygenation is still fresh in my mind and a tank full of that stuff fried my fuel pump and injectors on a 92 toyota pickup 14 years ago-fortunately we could prove the cause and Chevron paid for all the repairs-truck never ran the same, though after that.

[fnkngrv]

Originally Posted by tk-421

This I'm not so sure about. Do you have some info you'd like to share on the subject?

I am not sure if the seals were bad from the factory with the situation or not, but here in northern Maine the gas has 15% ethanol. There is a lady that I go through for picture frames and she has an 05 Camry. Last November her engine seized. After it was investigated locally they apparently sent the concerned parts to Toyota corporate and after several weeks they came back stating that they would not warranty her engine being replaced due to the fact that ethanol was the cause for the failure. Toyota specifically states in their documentation with the car that you are actually to use only 100% gasoline fuel...no ethanol is allowed for warranty purposes. She is an older lady and her car had 43k on it. I worry about ethanol myself. I have gotten into conversations with a few people about it and they try to compare it to using unleaded fuel in an older motor that was built for leaded fuel...to me not an apples to apples comparison, but I guess that is a debate for another day.

[Darb]

Originally Posted by tk-421

Not to mention that ethanol is not that efficient anyway. You need a lot of corn to make a little ethanol.

The primary issue is that the amount of petroleum products used to make fertilizer (via Haber-bosch process) for cornfields grossly outweighs the amount of petroleum saved using ethanol.

Personally, I won't be completely happy until we have an improved infrastructure for all-electric cars and a bigger shift away from coal-fueled power plants.

[STC]

Originally Posted by sleey0

I can no longer find fuel without ethanol where I live. Sad, sad day.

Here in Central PA (State College) two (2) of the last non-ethanol stations had to change over to ethanol blend. They get it (gas) from their supplier (pipeline from Altoona) who had to change on September 16th... PA State Law through compliance of Federal EPA ethanol rules. One station will run out of the non-ethanol gas early next week and the other mom/pop station in early to mid to October. Looks like I will continue partial fills till it's all gone!

I am not a big believer in ethanol saving the environment or doing shit really.

Neither am I. My peeve is how it is produced... the cost! Total waste... not efficient... not 'Green'. Who's really benefiting?

All it does it hurt your engine in the long run.

I definately hear from small engine/carburator and farm equipment owners they have problems with idle when using. It really screws up their engines!

Cheers!

[why?]

Originally Posted by Darb

Personally, I won't be completely happy until we have an improved infrastructure for all-electric cars and a bigger shift away from coal-fueled power plants.

That will never happen. The oil companies have far too much power, and switching to electric cars that might actually make sense would cost trillions.

And we should be using coal more, it is a heck of a lot better using something we have tons of rather than importing anything from somewhere else.

Ethanol from corn will always be crap.

[sleey0]

I don't have any facts to go on about ethanol hurting engines, but I read stories all the time just like fnkngrv posted.

I hear plenty of my tech buddies and mechanic friends talk about the issues with it.

Look, if it actually DID anything then maybe I would reconsider. BUT, since IT ISNT DOING SQUAT but POSSIBLY hurting our engines, then why should I like it?

Really, REALLY pisses me off to no extent.

I go through lots of trouble to maintain my vehicle and buy premium oils and fluids.

The one thing my car needs everday and I can't get it without it being contaminated?

Think about it....

[127.0.0.1]

most cars since 1998 can handle up to 15% ethanol no problem, no corrosion
and [almost definitively] all of them since 2004 can

BUT, there are some that may not.

[47_MasoN_47]

There are 2 gas stations within 10 miles of my house that don't have ethanol in their gas. If I'm ever out that way I always fuel up there, regardless of whether I really need to or not. Ethanol FTL!

[sleey0]

Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1

most cars since 1998 can handle up to 15% ethanol no problem, no corrosion
and [almost definitively] all of them since 2004 can

BUT, there are some that may not.

Could you elaborate a bit? Maybe provide some links to info on what the mfs changed in the vehicles to permit safe use of ethanol in our engines, fuel lines, pumps, injectors, tanks, etc?

Thanks!

[why?]

Originally Posted by 47_MasoN_47

There are 2 gas stations within 10 miles of my house that don't have ethanol in their gas. If I'm ever out that way I always fuel up there, regardless of whether I really need to or not. Ethanol FTL!

If I could find a station that didn't use it I would make a point of always going there. It is just so annoying knowing that the ethanol in the gas hurts mileage just by existing.

[fnkngrv]

found on gearheadcity.com:


Ford has sold more than 15,000 Focus FFV [flex fuel vehicle] in Sweden alone
since 2001. Ford made three primary modifications to their Flexi-Fuel Focus :

* Valves and valve seats of the 1.8 litre 16-valve gasoline engine are
made of specially hardened material
* Engine-control software senses the ratio of gas and ethanol in the fuel tank
and adjusts the injection and ignition accordingly. This is done automatically
without the driver having to make any adjustments.
* Finally, because bio-ethanol fuel has less positive cold starting characteristics
than gas, the cylinder block has particularly effective pre-heating when the
temperature dips below 5 degrees Fahrenheit.