Dear KCALB....

[ZING]

Can you elaborate on that gene? I would really like to know your take on this :)

[staticorex]

Maybe I should have kept the politics out of here. :p

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by staticorex

Maybe I should have kept the politics out of here. :p

Hey, you opened the floor to debate.

Gene

[staticorex]

Ha. I'm serious about it though. I've been a capitalist all my life. But recently I've been noticing many Europeans are living much better than I thought. Add to that the recent string of events in this country and I'm just not sure anymore. For every American who tells me it's better here there is one telling me the opposite.

Originally Posted by GeneW

said "superiority" is a personal decision and not something one can make for everyone.

Which is why I'm curious to see KCALB's answer. :p

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by staticorex

Ha. I'm serious about it though. I've been a capitalist all my life. But recently I've been noticing many Europeans are living much better than I thought. Add to that the recent string of events in this country and I'm just not sure anymore. For every American who tells me it's better here there is one telling me the opposite.

Which is why I'm curious to see KCALB's answer. :p

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...s-1609258.html

They're not doing well.... not in the slightest. Especially Germany.

Gene

[staticorex]

But it seems as though they are in recession now because we are. I was hearing that the Euro middle class was living with many of the same material things the US middle class was in the last decade or so. This was something I was always told was untrue before. It just seems like America was far better from 1900-1950, but from 1950-now we've been in decline while Europe has slowly but steadily gotten better. But then I still read how their unemployment rates have and still are far above ours and when you can't find a job in France/Germany ect that you literally cannot. Not like here where "I can't get a job" means I can only get a job at Walmart or Mcdonalds.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by staticorex

But it seems as though they are in recession now because we are.

...not exactly. The Europeans have been slowly losing their standard of living since the cost of oil rose in the 1970s. They've lost more manufacturing work to Asia (and the US) than the US itself has to Asia.

Case in point has been the trend towards reducing the number of hours per week which are worked. Does anyone imagine that reducing your labor output magically makes you more prosperous over the long run? If the State raises your wages then the prices of goods also eventually rise. Who does this hurt if not the people who work for a living?

Originally Posted by staticorex

I was hearing that the Euro middle class was living with many of the same material things the US middle class was in the last decade or so. This was something I was always told was untrue before.

Americans have always had more land than Europeans. We don't have that same "Class" issue going on in the US, with old money owning gigantic chunks of land while ordinary people have a "parcel".

We had more oil because the US is one of the largest producers of oil in the world.

Where the Europeans have it "good" is that they don't send their military on adventures all over the world. That Imperial routine is mighty expensive.

Originally Posted by staticorex

It just seems like America was far better from 1900-1950, but from 1950-now we've been in decline while Europe has slowly but steadily gotten better. But then I still read how their unemployment rates have and still are far above ours and when you can't find a job in France/Germany ect that you literally cannot. Not like here where "I can't get a job" means I can only get a job at Walmart or Mcdonalds.

If the State sets a "minimum income" for people, rather than having them work at Wal-Mart or McDonald's, what sort of life do they live?

Gene

[tomato]

Originally Posted by staticorex

But it seems as though they are in recession now because we are. I was hearing that the Euro middle class was living with many of the same material things the US middle class was in the last decade or so. This was something I was always told was untrue before. It just seems like America was far better from 1900-1950, but from 1950-now we've been in decline while Europe has slowly but steadily gotten better. But then I still read how their unemployment rates have and still are far above ours and when you can't find a job in France/Germany ect that you literally cannot. Not like here where "I can't get a job" means I can only get a job at Walmart or Mcdonalds.

I don't agree completely with you (I think the US economy remained strong throughout the 50's, and Europe, right now is having problems as well, well in part because the financial system is kind of intertwined all over the world) but you're still on the right track IMO, and I like the questions you are asking yourself.

My brother lives in Europe. We bought the same japanese cars (his was slightly better, actually). We have similar electronic equipment at home. His standard of living might be higher in some ways (he doesn't spend as much for health care and health insurance, and has way more vacation time than we do) but we have other stuff in the US.

BTW, I was looking for the original comment from PK but I can't find it. Did it get deleted? PK's folks (from what I understand from previous posts), come from a "true communist" country. No fun at all. You don't want that model. But communism is NOT socialism, so let's not confuse everything.

No system is perfect anyway and the little guy pretty much always suffers.

Don't feel bad if KCALB doesn't answer your question, maybe he just wants to stay neutral on that one so he doesn't hurt anyone's feelings

Now, if you'll excuse me, I gotta find my red stapler after I'm done moving my stuff to the basement

[tomato]

Originally Posted by GeneW

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...s-1609258.html

They're not doing well.... not in the slightest. Especially Germany.

Gene

Hello, neither are we! (banks collapsing, BAILOUTS, stock market crashs, trillion dollar deficits in retirement accounts, no health care for many, er., stop me anytime )

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by ZING

Can you elaborate on that gene? I would really like to know your take on this :)

I was being "trite". Let's just leave it with my pithy answer, because said "superiority" is a personal decision and not something one can make for everyone.

Gene