new (not really) oil from mobil 1, 0w-30 and 0w-20 - Page 3 - Toyota Yaris Forums

TheSilkySmooth · 08-25-2009, 09:24 AM

BTW castrol 0w-30 is BS 0W, given it specs more like a 10w-35. The oil does NOT have that great of cold pumpability compared, say, to Castrol Edge. The GC 0w30 is about 60,000 cSt at -40 and the Edge is about 12,000 cSt at -35. BIG difference. This engine wants a low HTHS energy conserving oil, GC is NOT - its TOO thick at 100c at 12+ cSt and its an A3/B3 not an A1/A5. Use the European spec - they make MORE sense - just like the Metric system. Look for A1/A5.

R2D2 · 08-25-2009, 10:01 AM

DerFlosser and others,

If the issue gets forced (as in engine failure under warranty)I could see the dealer saying the TSB only applies to the 07 Yaris even though the engines are the same in 08 and 09. This could make it a lot harder for people using 5W-20 to get their claim settled. Therefore personally I couldn't continue to recommend 5W-20 without advising of potential warranty headaches. I still feel that 5W/0W-20 are better choices for most in these engines.

So I guess it's about personal comfort. Myself, I've never stuck strictly to the recommended oil or drain intervals on ANY vehicle I've ever owned (nor had any engine related issues). They are recommendations and they have to take into account the absolute worse case scenario and come out with one-size-fits-all for the consumer.

The M-M Warranty Act dictates they have to prove going outside the recommendations caused the problem but the reality is the consumer is in the tough spot, should anything happen.

Personally I like the 5W-20 and I'll stick with it but I'm realistic about the risk -like anyone should be with any type of "mod". I'm in the market for a 5W-20 oil cap since that's all the dealer cares about :) From what I've been reading elsewhere there are quite a few Yarii running on 5W-20 based on TSB EG018-06, "correct" or not.

For those of you wanting to use 0W-30 technically you may be in a similar boat even though as mentioned above 0W-30 is the same viscosity at operating temp as 5W-30 and simply has upgraded cold start properties. Usually on most 0W-30 oil bottles it says something to the effect of "may be used where 5W-30 or 10W-30 are recommended". But it's not on the cap...

So is the way I see it after my conversations yesterday.

R2

R2D2 · 08-25-2009, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSilkySmooth

BTW castrol 0w-30 is BS 0W, given it specs more like a 10w-35. The oil does NOT have that great of cold pumpability compared, say, to Castrol Edge. The GC 0w30 is about 60,000 cSt at -40 and the Edge is about 12,000 cSt at -35. BIG difference. This engine wants a low HTHS energy conserving oil, GC is NOT - its TOO thick at 100c at 12+ cSt and its an A3/B3 not an A1/A5. Use the European spec - they make MORE sense - just like the Metric system. Look for A1/A5.

+1 on GC being too thick for a Yaris-it's nearly 40 wt

R2

Inspector14 · 08-25-2009, 10:36 AM

I have done some research in the last week regarding oil viscosity, looking at cold flow, cold pumping, and viscosity in centistokes.

i took this information from the manufacturer data sheets, from their websites. German castrol is far too thick, i was surprised at its ratings for being a 0w-30. i was also surprised at the viscositiy ratings for what i thought were run of the mill conventional. Pennzoil YB was pretty good, coming in with low numbers like Penn Plat.

i am currently using castrol edge, because i fell for the marketing, i am going to be changing my oil this weekend (wed/thurs for me) to formula shell synthetic 5w-20. it is by far the lowest viscosity 5w-20 i found. with GC coming in at a 60,000 on cold flow properties at -30c, formula shell synthetic (from its datasheet) comes in at -arround 9400 at -35c. thats all i am concerned with.

im going to give it a try. one thing i did learn after comparing everything, is that marketing plays a huge roll, and that whatever you use, it will be just fine. they are all so close together, it makes almost no difference.

severous01 · 08-26-2009, 04:31 PM

im running 0-30 now and was wondering about the 0-20 from mobil 1 because it was 20 bux per 5qt at walmart.

where penz plat was 26, my normal valvoline full syn was 24, and bottles of mobil 1 were 7 bux. i figured that saving 10 bux vs quarts and buying the cheapest and getting 'the best' would be better.

any way, i can stick with the 0-30, it's a good a oil as any out there for my climate. never gets below 40 and never above 110. not too bad, but sux on the AC system.

Henry G. · 08-26-2009, 07:08 PM

If I go 0w-30 in the winter which synthetic brand would you guys suggest? I used Mobil 1 last winter.....

Lazerdot · 08-26-2009, 07:28 PM

Amsoil Signature Series 0w30 is good for 17500 miles or one year under severe conditions (35,000 miles or a year under Normal conditions). As an AMSOIL dealer I hope you'll go to TruLube.com and check it out.

Lots of oil info on this forum, use what s best for you.

TheSilkySmooth · 08-27-2009, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inspector14

I am currently using castrol edge, because i fell for the marketing, i am going to be changing my oil this weekend (wed/thurs for me) .

Dont fall for the BITOG bull. Edge is a superior oil with stroong ADDS pack and long drain capability and cold flow in the 5w-30 wt close to 0w-20. I would run the 5w-30 edge though - its pretty much a "strong" 20wt. Its also easily good for 7500+/6 mo OCI in any circumstance. Given its cold flow, its majority REAL synthetic base, whereas the Shell is prob a slack wax group iii+ not bad, but not a premium $$ basestock - A good $4/qt oil though. BTW, EDGE is on sale at walmart for 26.50 in my town for 5 qt jugs ($5.30/qt - not bad for a extended drain oil (ACEA A5 that meets corvette spec)

TheSilkySmooth · 08-27-2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry G.

If I go 0w-30 in the winter which synthetic brand would you guys suggest? I used Mobil 1 last winter.....

Did you use M1 AFE or just plain old M1? Most people like Penn Plat, but Edge now the price is down should "slaughter" M1. ExxonMobil tend to use group iv PAO base oils which do have good cold flow but do NOT have good wear or solubility characteristics. You'll see high Iron wear and engine noise complaints about M1 all the time.

TheSilkySmooth · 08-27-2009, 09:03 AM

On an oil board, someone said there is a Pennzoil Platinum coupon on their web page - If I can get a "faux" synthetic for a conventional oil price I'd take it. Euro synthetics (REAL synthetic) are very pricey; near $10/L

Inspector14 · 08-27-2009, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSilkySmooth

Dont fall for the BITOG bull. Edge is a superior oil with stroong ADDS pack and long drain capability and cold flow in the 5w-30 wt close to 0w-20. I would run the 5w-30 edge though - its pretty much a "strong" 20wt. Its also easily good for 7500+/6 mo OCI in any circumstance. Given its cold flow, its majority REAL synthetic base, whereas the Shell is prob a slack wax group iii+ not bad, but not a premium $$ basestock - A good $4/qt oil though. BTW, EDGE is on sale at walmart for 26.50 in my town for 5 qt jugs ($5.30/qt - not bad for a extended drain oil (ACEA A5 that meets corvette spec)

its not the infor from BITOG that i am going away from edge. i am looking at the raw data from the testing done for the product data sheet. this compares 5w-30 edge to 5w-20 penn plat, they dont make a 5-20 edge.

Castrol Edge 5w-30: cSt @40* C = 54.1, cSt @100*c = 9.8, crank viscosity @ -35*c = 4075, pumping viscosity @-35c = 11524.

Pennzoil Platinum 5w-20: cSt 40*c= 46.8, cSt 100*c= 8.4, crank visc= 4250@-35c, pump visc 9700@ -35.

the best one i found was FormulaShell Synthetic 5w-20, but i cant get that here other than from a wholesaler by the case.

FormulaShell 5w-20: cSt @40c = 46.5, cSt @100c = 8.7, crank visc= 3480@-35c, pump visc = 9300 @-35c

i would bet mobil1 would have similar properties, but their data sheets do not provide all of his information. what did surprise me was how "thick" Amsoil is when its cold, and also how thick royal purple is as well. amsoil did no provide a cold pumping viscosty, but royal purple comes in at 22,000. well above any of the other group 3 synthetics.

i dont really care about additive packs, etc. they are all good enough if the have the API ratings, and the Ilsac ratings. they are all so close together anymore.

i was only looking at cold flow poperties. how well the oil could be pumped and how well it flowed in cold, cold weather. My car is parked outside all winter long, with no block heater or even a place to plug one in if i had one, so i need an oil that will still flow very well even when its -30* outside.

ps, idont know if those measurments are what i should be looking at. im sure the lower cSt number = "thinner"/ more fluid/ less viscous. and i think that the crank and cold pump numbers = lower is less viscous. 1= water that kinda thing.

opt101 · 09-29-2009, 09:14 PM

Being a new owner of a 2007 yaris, and reading the TSB, I just got of the phone with Toyota (800-331-4331) and had the rep pull up the TSB on his own with out me telling him the tsb number (I played dumb, and said I heard of a TSB about oil on the net), after a brief hold while he went to check more in depth about the TSB, he stated that use what the manual and cap says, and that the TSB was either being recalled, and or was canceled/discontinued by Toyota, but some dealers have some knowledge of it and make reference to it to some customers. So his recommendation was stick to the cap and manual says. So after reading the countless post and Toyota’s verification, I will just stick with what the cap says I guess.

DerFlosser · 09-30-2009, 04:07 PM

I decided to stick with 5w-30. I may move to 0w-30 next year. My car only has 7K miles on it.

08-25-2009, 10:01 AM	#38
R2D2 Crazy Oil Sniffer Drives: MM 09 Yaris 5 Dr LB "Click" Join Date: May 2009 Location: ME Posts: 498	DerFlosser and others, If the issue gets forced (as in engine failure under warranty)I could see the dealer saying the TSB only applies to the 07 Yaris even though the engines are the same in 08 and 09. This could make it a lot harder for people using 5W-20 to get their claim settled. Therefore personally I couldn't continue to recommend 5W-20 without advising of potential warranty headaches. I still feel that 5W/0W-20 are better choices for most in these engines. So I guess it's about personal comfort. Myself, I've never stuck strictly to the recommended oil or drain intervals on ANY vehicle I've ever owned (nor had any engine related issues). They are recommendations and they have to take into account the absolute worse case scenario and come out with one-size-fits-all for the consumer. The M-M Warranty Act dictates they have to prove going outside the recommendations caused the problem but the reality is the consumer is in the tough spot, should anything happen. Personally I like the 5W-20 and I'll stick with it but I'm realistic about the risk -like anyone should be with any type of "mod". I'm in the market for a 5W-20 oil cap since that's all the dealer cares about :) From what I've been reading elsewhere there are quite a few Yarii running on 5W-20 based on TSB EG018-06, "correct" or not. For those of you wanting to use 0W-30 technically you may be in a similar boat even though as mentioned above 0W-30 is the same viscosity at operating temp as 5W-30 and simply has upgraded cold start properties. Usually on most 0W-30 oil bottles it says something to the effect of "may be used where 5W-30 or 10W-30 are recommended". But it's not on the cap... So is the way I see it after my conversations yesterday. R2 __________________ "The howl was the sound of God’s casting pot, the morphing of my cells into shape, the forming of oceans out of molten premordial plasma. And I could feel it. I could cry for it. I could cry with it." -The Fitful One Last edited by R2D2; 08-25-2009 at 10:13 AM.

08-26-2009, 07:28 PM	#43
Lazerdot View User's Garage Drives: Blazing Blue 08 liftback Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Euless Texas Posts: 241	Amsoil Signature Series 0w30 is good for 17500 miles or one year under severe conditions (35,000 miles or a year under Normal conditions). As an AMSOIL dealer I hope you'll go to TruLube.com and check it out. Lots of oil info on this forum, use what s best for you. __________________ One Year One Oil-AMSOIL at www.Trulube.com TRD Exhaust, Springs and Struts. TRD SSK. NST Underdrive Crank Pulley. Amsoil Dominator 10w-30 Racing Oil, Amsoil DOT4 brake fluid, Amsoil Severe Gear 75w-90 transmission oil, Ultra Racing 23mm Sway Bar, Camber Bolts, R1 Drilled Slotted front Brakes and SS Brake cables from Micro-Image. Orange Konig Daylight 17s, Kumo MXs. Greg@TruLube.com

08-25-2009, 09:24 AM	#37
TheSilkySmooth Drives: 08 3DR 5M Bayou Blue; 09 Fos Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 622	BTW castrol 0w-30 is BS 0W, given it specs more like a 10w-35. The oil does NOT have that great of cold pumpability compared, say, to Castrol Edge. The GC 0w30 is about 60,000 cSt at -40 and the Edge is about 12,000 cSt at -35. BIG difference. This engine wants a low HTHS energy conserving oil, GC is NOT - its TOO thick at 100c at 12+ cSt and its an A3/B3 not an A1/A5. Use the European spec - they make MORE sense - just like the Metric system. Look for A1/A5.

08-25-2009, 10:36 AM	#40
Inspector14 Drives: 09 Yaris hatch, Meteor Metal Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Anchorage, AK Posts: 60	I have done some research in the last week regarding oil viscosity, looking at cold flow, cold pumping, and viscosity in centistokes. i took this information from the manufacturer data sheets, from their websites. German castrol is far too thick, i was surprised at its ratings for being a 0w-30. i was also surprised at the viscositiy ratings for what i thought were run of the mill conventional. Pennzoil YB was pretty good, coming in with low numbers like Penn Plat. i am currently using castrol edge, because i fell for the marketing, i am going to be changing my oil this weekend (wed/thurs for me) to formula shell synthetic 5w-20. it is by far the lowest viscosity 5w-20 i found. with GC coming in at a 60,000 on cold flow properties at -30c, formula shell synthetic (from its datasheet) comes in at -arround 9400 at -35c. thats all i am concerned with. im going to give it a try. one thing i did learn after comparing everything, is that marketing plays a huge roll, and that whatever you use, it will be just fine. they are all so close together, it makes almost no difference.

08-26-2009, 04:31 PM	#41
severous01 Drives: 2008 yaris, stripped, red Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: SE Texas Posts: 977	im running 0-30 now and was wondering about the 0-20 from mobil 1 because it was 20 bux per 5qt at walmart. where penz plat was 26, my normal valvoline full syn was 24, and bottles of mobil 1 were 7 bux. i figured that saving 10 bux vs quarts and buying the cheapest and getting 'the best' would be better. any way, i can stick with the 0-30, it's a good a oil as any out there for my climate. never gets below 40 and never above 110. not too bad, but sux on the AC system.

08-26-2009, 07:08 PM	#42
Henry G. Drives: 2008 Yaris HB Join Date: May 2009 Location: So Cal. Posts: 100	If I go 0w-30 in the winter which synthetic brand would you guys suggest? I used Mobil 1 last winter.....

08-27-2009, 09:03 AM	#46
TheSilkySmooth Drives: 08 3DR 5M Bayou Blue; 09 Fos Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 622	On an oil board, someone said there is a Pennzoil Platinum coupon on their web page - If I can get a "faux" synthetic for a conventional oil price I'd take it. Euro synthetics (REAL synthetic) are very pricey; near $10/L

09-29-2009, 09:14 PM	#48
opt101 Drives: 2007 Toyota Yaris 2dr Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11	Being a new owner of a 2007 yaris, and reading the TSB, I just got of the phone with Toyota (800-331-4331) and had the rep pull up the TSB on his own with out me telling him the tsb number (I played dumb, and said I heard of a TSB about oil on the net), after a brief hold while he went to check more in depth about the TSB, he stated that use what the manual and cap says, and that the TSB was either being recalled, and or was canceled/discontinued by Toyota, but some dealers have some knowledge of it and make reference to it to some customers. So his recommendation was stick to the cap and manual says. So after reading the countless post and Toyota’s verification, I will just stick with what the cap says I guess.

09-30-2009, 04:07 PM	#49
DerFlosser Drives: Yaris Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: USA Posts: 355	I decided to stick with 5w-30. I may move to 0w-30 next year. My car only has 7K miles on it.