Yaris Sedan Deadening and Sound system upgrade

[NHYarisFan]

^^ pics
ya i need rims lol i'm stock mainly, work in progress. i do have a pic of my Hu in the HU thread ( my little mod Green Lt is Am meter Red is Volt meter :biggrin:)
http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13667&page=8 post #128

[_S7V7N_]

Loll SQ you get quite a bit of attention on a few forums. I was looking up the MB Quart amplifiers and ran into a post where they were saying your DD's weren't good enough to compete against some Macs. Some people just can't ever say good job or hell of a set up. You kinda have the trophies to back your stuff up !!

[derickveliz2]

Sqcomp...
Remember the song... Fiesta De Montunos by Patato & the Enriquillo Winds

Just for fun...
I mute the Sub and the LOWs and the track still sounds amazing!!!
I didn't know my Mids+Tweets could sound so good just by them selfs, and yes...
my mids start at 160 Hz all the way up to 10 kHz Tweeters pick up at 8 kHz and up

Try it and let us know...

Just for the record...
" This one plays percussion of several different types along with woodwind saxophones and a flute. It's a very natural and great soundstage stretch. It's obviously recorded "Live". You can hear all the idiosyncrasies of the players." sqcomp

D.

[sqcomp]

I recall that thread regarding the DD amps not being good enough. IIRC, I'm the one that walked into the Western Canadian regionals, first time competing, with a half built system, and took first place in IASCA's Amateur class. What in my mind, what separated amplifiers is the signal path (how unfettered it is or isn't), build quality, and input quality. There are a lot of other little variables that fall into those categories that we all think about.

Derick, imagine what you could do with an all SE lineup? :) Picture to follow...

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/photo7-2.jpg

F#1 7990
with JL Slash V2 series amps and an L8SE, L1ProSE R2 two way in a 1988 T-Bird. This is Drew Snapp's bird. He and I competed against each other in the Western Finals. Great guy. Now he's looking at being on Team Hybrids.

[derickveliz2]

Derick, imagine what you could do with an all SE lineup? :)


Mmm... It would be like a humid dream for an Audio Enthusiast!


D.

[derickveliz2]

F#1 7990
with JL Slash V2 series amps and an L8SE, L1ProSE R2 two way in a 1988 T-Bird. This is Drew Snapp's bird. He and I competed against each other in the Western Finals. Great guy. Now he's looking at being on Team Hybrids.

I would like to see behind the L8SEs, and did you get a chance to sit on the both seats? how comfortable or uncomfortable was it?

D.

[sqcomp]

Ask away on the construction of the enclosures. I know how he did them.

I sat in both seats. You notice the picture? That was me in the driver's seat with legs all the way out. He competes in the IASCA Pro class now. He's extended his seat rails for more stage depth.

[derickveliz2]

Ask away on the construction of the enclosures. I know how he did them.

I sat in both seats. You notice the picture? That was me in the driver's seat with legs all the way out. He competes in the IASCA Pro class now. He's extended his seat rails for more stage depth.

Do the seats all the way back makes this car a "none" commuter?

I mean can you still drive it like that?

D.

[derickveliz2]

Ask away on the construction of the enclosures. I know how he did them.

I sat in both seats. You notice the picture? That was me in the driver's seat with legs all the way out. He competes in the IASCA Pro class now. He's extended his seat rails for more stage depth.

And how good is it?

D.

[sqcomp]

IMHO, it's about the same as my car was at Canadian finals. At this moment there are two weaknesses with it. One is that it needs tuning help, two is that the tweeters at this juncture can be point sourced (more tuning)...perhaps a third is that it's running a nearly obsolete processor setup with the Audio-control.

His width is slightly past pillar to pillar which is an improvement over it's last iteration.

As for the rails, you don't drive it like that. You simply slide the seat all the way back when judging.

The mid bass enclosure is really something closer to an IB setup. His rear wave vents directly to the ground via a PVC tube that is shielded from the elements.

[Spidermandud]

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/photo7-2.jpg



DO WANT :bow:

[sqcomp]

You're only seeing a small glimpse of it. It is a sweet "little" ride. I'm happy to say I have tuning time in on it. We're arranging a full array of JL HD amps in it soon...

[Spidermandud]

I've seen your stuff on the 'horns thread. That's awesome man haha. I'll standby for pics :D

[sqcomp]

I'm looking at the possibility of replacing my four buell horns with a K3la aluminum setup...

[Spidermandud]

:eyebulge: Pricy!

[sqcomp]

Yes BUT...

...I can tell you with 100% certainty that it is worth the money. For instance, today, I had two people cut me off and then slam on their brakes on my way home from work. These douchbags (clinical term) are perfect targets for a wakeup call.

I wouldn't feel bad one bit if the horn sent them into another lane. Preferably not in a firey crash...cause I'd be obligated to stop and pull the scumbag out of the car. Karma is a bitch and with all the instances of people bullying the yaris, it will come around in spades.

[derickveliz2]

I want horns...

D.

[sqcomp]

You do! I can walk you through the install. How about this, if I can make a K3la fit under the front clip of the car like I have my buell horns now, I'll sell you the 4 horn kit after I'm done installing the Nathan.

The nice thing is that you'd have direct support on install from me directly. I could even sell you the pneumatic fittings and hoses. It would almost be a "drop in" project.

Okay...that's it D...you MUST move out to the West coast. There's too much we have to accomplish! :D

[Spidermandud]

I'm thinking of putting one of these on the Samurai:
http://www.amazon.com/Things-Never-Knew-Existed-COGA-1/dp/B000CR26JO

As far as the Yaris goes; i can see the uses popping up everytime I take a drive; but currently lack the fundage to do anything about it. I'll just keep following the thread and drooling for now haha.

[derickveliz2]

You do! I can walk you through the install.
Okay...that's it D...you MUST move out to the West coast. There's too much we have to accomplish! :D

Yes, that would be a good experience!

will start looking for some job opportunities...

Thanks

D.

[patm]

Yes BUT...

...I can tell you with 100% certainty that it is worth the money. For instance, today, I had two people cut me off and then slam on their brakes on my way home from work. These douchbags (clinical term) are perfect targets for a wakeup call.

I wouldn't feel bad one bit if the horn sent them into another lane. Preferably not in a firey crash...cause I'd be obligated to stop and pull the scumbag out of the car. Karma is a bitch and with all the instances of people bullying the yaris, it will come around in spades.

I thought I was the only one experiencing this.

[derickveliz2]

After playing and tuning for a while with the HAT L6s... these are my thoughts:

I swear that the ZEUS drivers had excellent MID-BASS, many people agree with me and how good they play, good speakers on a good install...

But I'm AMAZED on the HAT L6s PERFORMANCE!... here is where I would put the money! I have no words to describe THE AMOUNT OF BASS I get from these little speakers, AMAZING!

I take my HAT off.

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/L6/f6d2035d.jpg

D.

[sqcomp]

Derick,

There's a reason I'm so deeply affiliated with Hybrid Audio Technologies. It's what got me started in the first place, a passionate non-compromising approach to sound quality from a grass roots "start up" company.

After this last CES, Scott decided to give me business cards:

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/photo-8.png

I digress, show everyone the latest picture where you have the L6v2 speakers. I believe I have my L6SEs in the same location as you do. When I performed my sound check, I'm going to have to tame the bass, which especially in my situation is MUCH better than having to gain the mid bass frequencies up. Why? Because I have essentially two processors that can cascade the signal.

Also, D...you just wait. I have a distinct feeling that you might just be a fan of the Legatia subwoofer coming out. You may just be able to rework the enclosure you have now for the I6SW for a different mounting baffle. Think of it, instead of a 6" sub up front, you'll have a 13.5" sub...

Speaking of new stuff. We should get you into the L3v2 midrange...

[derickveliz2]

I keep my self wondering why sounds so good... HAT L6's are worth every penny! best investment so far (talking about speakers)

I gave the IDQ12 another chance (in the trunk):

Yes it feels more powerful! maybe too much for SQ music, specially when my seat vibrates (I dislike), instead of feeling the bass in my chest, it may have to do with the gain I get from the trunk into the cabin. Sounds great though, but in the SPL area, not SQ. and my stage gets pull over towards me, no good.

No matter how much Time Alignment I do, and how powerful the L6's are I can't lie, I still can fill the subwoofer it's in the trunk.

The little Subwoofer in the front (I6SW) is sweet! not a "Bass Head" fan, but SQ is fantastic! what's up with the 13.5" sub?

Yes, we have the L6s in the same location (OEM door area) see pictures below...

I'm hopping to get a pair of L3SEs after uncle Sam returns me some taxes, we'll see.

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/L6/7b4567df.jpg

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/L6/38de4a47.jpg


D.

[sqcomp]

What's your crossover point on the sub when it's in the trunk? What's your crossover for the mids?

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0198.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/photo1-2-1.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/photo-9-1.jpg

^ Yes, there's more sanding that has already been done. This is why I put high build primer on it, so I coud see where I needed to fix it up.

I'll kick up some new pics of my door panels when I get them painted and epoxied onto the OEM panel.

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/033.jpg

D and I love us some HAT...

[derickveliz2]

What's your crossover point on the sub when it's in the trunk? What's your crossover for the mids?


LPF 40Hz for SUBWOOFER in trunk
HPF 50Hz for LOWs

D.

[sqcomp]

Why the gap for the lows? What are the slopes on those?

[derickveliz2]

Why the gap for the lows? What are the slopes on those?

I don't remember the number right now, but the sub looks like at 45 degrees and the Lows a little bit more than 45 degrees maybe 60 or so.

I usually move them up and down a click or 2, it depends if I'm on the highway or in back roads. (not a good thing, but I'm learning what does what)

D.

[yrsgirl]

oooh your getting soo close to 100 pages! i love this thread one of the funnest ones on yw by far. you guys rock!

[derickveliz2]

oooh your getting soo close to 100 pages! i love this thread one of the funnest ones on yw by far. you guys rock!

and this is just the beginning! :tongue:

Thank you,

D.

[derickveliz2]

Bad news for me, I did my taxes and didn't work so well this time )o:

I'm going to have to start selling audio stuff.

So what do I have: (Just thinking loud)

2 pioneer amps

3 10" solo-baric kickers subwoofers

1 IDQ12 (maybe I'll keep this one)

1 10" Bazooka

and more...

mmm... I'm going to organize my self and let you guys know before I put all these stuff for sale.

D.

[sqcomp]

D,

Get on my FB and look up Jeremy Weaver. See if he wants to take any of your stuff.

[sqcomp]

Next steps...I need to see where my imperfections are so that I can fill them:

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0232.jpg
^ Notice the "notch" where it looks like the plastic is cut funky and not in a straight line? It's actually a trick on the eyes.

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0236.jpg
^See? No real notch. Lots of places to fill and sand still.

That's one of the things high build primer is good for. If the primer can't cover it up, you absolutely know you need to work the issue out.

[derickveliz2]

Next steps...I need to see where my imperfections are so that I can fill them:

^ Notice the "notch" where it looks like the plastic is cut funky and not in a straight line? It's actually a trick on the eyes.


^See? No real notch. Lots of places to fill and sand still.

That's one of the things high build primer is good for. If the primer can't cover it up, you absolutely know you need to work the issue out.


Wow!

Did you get new a-pillars?

D.

[derickveliz2]

Here is my x-over graph!

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/HU%20Stereo%20System/021312165354.jpg

D.

[derickveliz2]

And my Time / Alignment Data... Before my Next Auto EQ+T/A

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/HU%20Stereo%20System/021312165416.jpg

D.

[sqcomp]

Absolutely new pillars.

Let's talk about your crossover points. That midbass, what is the range again? From what to what? looks like you've got some 24 dB slopes and 30 dB slopes mixed in there. That right side TA on the mid and low seem way far off. I'm concerned that there are some issues with phasing (only a suspicion though). Figure about the real distance between the mids and tweeters on the right side...are they really THAT far apart?

This is of course only observation off my own experience.

See? This is why you need to be out here. We've got Coffee Creek Correctional facility not 5 miles away form my place. Job! Bam! :P

[derickveliz2]

Absolutely new pillars.

Let's talk about your crossover points. That midbass, what is the range again? From what to what? looks like you've got some 24 dB slopes and 30 dB slopes mixed in there. That right side TA on the mid and low seem way far off. I'm concerned that there are some issues with phasing (only a suspicion though). Figure about the real distance between the mids and tweeters on the right side...are they really THAT far apart?

This is of course only observation off my own experience.

See? This is why you need to be out here. We've got Coffee Creek Correctional facility not 5 miles away form my place. Job! Bam! :P

How much did you pay for the new a-pillars?

midbass is 50Hz to (one click before 200Hz) I can't remember

Phasing... it could be that has been the hardest part for me to figure out correctly.

I'll check on the distance between the mids and tweeters on the right side tomorrow.

All my tuning has been by ear, here is the Auto T/A: (and that was with the sub in the trunk)

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/HU%20Stereo%20System/021312165434.jpg

D.

[sqcomp]

Oh GAWD...I despize the Auto TA. It doesn't work.

Oh! I just picked up an eibach pro kit. See? I'm trying to be like Derick!

I say make the mid measure within 2" of the tweeter measurement because that's truly what it is IIRC.

The pillars were something like $95 a piece from toyotapartszone.com. They've got great service and get the parts out quickly. I say that also knowing they're in California.

[derickveliz2]

I say make the mid measure within 2" of the tweeter measurement because that's truly what it is IIRC.
.

Really? it's more like 10", I'll check tomorrow.

D.

[derickveliz2]

Oh! I just picked up an eibach pro kit. See? I'm trying to be like Derick!


Welcome to the...

Sweet and Low ride!

D.

[derickveliz2]

The pillars were something like $95 a piece from toyotapartszone.com. They've got great service and get the parts out quickly. I say that also knowing they're in California.

Thank you,

D.

[sqcomp]

I'm thinking the midrange and tweeter, not the low and tweeter. I thought you had the mid up in the pillar. IIRC, the difference between the right side tweeter and right side mid was only an inch or two...

[derickveliz2]

I'm thinking the midrange and tweeter, not the low and tweeter. I thought you had the mid up in the pillar. IIRC, the difference between the right side tweeter and right side mid was only an inch or two...

My mids are down in the kick area!

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/L6/de4b787b.jpg

D.

[sqcomp]

Crap! I forgot about that. He he...carry on.

[derickveliz2]

What do you think about this:

http://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/non-make/cartechnology/cartechnology_284_300.jpg

LINK (http://www.edmunds.com/car-technology/car-audio/sound-advice.html)

D.

[sqcomp]

I like the link...especially the musical suggestions. I just purchased all of the musical selections.

The picture is interesting. We shouldn't constrain ourselves to live within the pillars though. I LOVE the depth aspect of the picture though.

[derickveliz2]

Here are my thoughts about how the "Front Stage" differs from car to car, for example:

A Ford Mustang, is greatly favorable Front Stage because the proportions of it's body style, and the 2nd and 3rd graphics from a Yaris Sedan! with MIDS in kick area and OEM door location.

See the difference in Center Stage between both? on the Mustang you could feel people singing on the hood! I know we can manipulate the stage, but physically the Car has to do a LOT in Car Audio Systems.

3rd image shows the Point Source "MIDs" in the OEM Doors location, the stage moves towards listener, and every thing else is about the same.

Please let me know what you think, and correct me if I'm wrong.

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/FrontStageFordMustang.png

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/FrontStageToyotaYarisSedan.png

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/FrontStageToyotaYarisSedanDoors.png

D.

[derickveliz2]

I just purchased all of the musical selections.


Did you really?

any good ones?

D.

[derickveliz2]

I just purchased all of the musical selections.


Where did you buy "Shoo Fly Don't Bother Me"?

D.

[sqcomp]

I had to buy the CD. It's not in my hands just yet...on the way though.

And WTH! Why do you keep crashing YW? :)

[derickveliz2]

I had to buy the CD. It's not in my hands just yet...on the way though.

And WTH! Why do you keep crashing YW? :)

Where did you buy it?


Too many Sound Quality Car Audio secretes been exposed here! jeje

D.

[sqcomp]

I bought it off amazon.

D, check this out...

I just found out that I will be asked to "co-pilot" Scott Buwalda's G35 at INAC/SBN this year. Yikes! This means I'll probably be doing demos and/or presenting the car to judges. Double yikes!! This is tantamount to being asked to run Black Betty through the lanes in his stead...

I'm starting to shake...

[derickveliz2]

Congratulations!!!

I really would like to check these cars my self.

I feel like the G35 it's a Marketing tool, and Black Betty is a work of art in Car Audio Industry!

D.

[derickveliz2]

Look what the P99 did with Auto T/A and Auto EQ...

(why Mids allways go up to 1.6kHz?)


http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/xover_Feb162012.jpg

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/TA_Feb162012.jpg

D.

[derickveliz2]

Interesting?

http://media.gm.com/content/Pages/news/us/en/2011/Feb/0222_Terrain/_jcr_content/rightpar/sectioncontainer_0/par/download/file.res/GMC_Terrain_ANC.jpg

D.

[sqcomp]

That gmc piece seems to be a big version of noise canceling headphones.

Auto TA...what do you see on those measurements? Were those made by the deck or you? How does he auto TA sound?

[derickveliz2]

That gmc piece seems to be a big version of noise canceling headphones.

Auto TA...what do you see on those measurements? Were those made by the deck or you? How does he auto TA sound?

The Deck generated those measurements!

I see point source been share by LOWs and MIDs.

Sounds ok, but stage is closer to me and a little lower. I haven't really listen to it, so in my way back home and I'll get more feed back.

D.

[derickveliz2]

Ok!

After many miles listening and experimenting these are my thoughts:

The deck does a great job calculating reflections and Auto EQ sound good, T/A it's a little off and x-over points is not what I like. What I do like is that puts the Phase of the speakers in sync. and balances individually each speaker output, very nice features that I'm not able to do my self.

So putting back my MIDs as a point source, and my T/A numbers (by ear) my sound-stage becomes alive, it's higher, deeper and wider.

I have the feeling that now I'm going to do a custom EQ where I keep my x-over points.

I'll let you what is the outcome.

D.

[sqcomp]

D,

E-mail to you. Tell me what you think of that file after you hear it in your car. The track should be a VERY good test of depth, imaging, stage height, tonality (with the guitar), and width.

[derickveliz2]

Holly Guacamole! that's nice!
I just played the track in my computer and headphones, it's amazing, how did you get the file?

D.

[sqcomp]

It's a demonstration from Starkey Labs. These are the people who engineer/design hearing aids.

"Cetera" IIRC is an Algorithm created by the lab to better represent the difference in spatial cues and noises that the human ear perceives.

After hearing this on your headphones, get it into your car. Let me know what your thoughts are.

I plan on burning this to a CD or putting it on a flash drive and taking it to SBN/INAC and playing it in as many vehicles as possible.

[sqcomp]

Check this out...

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/photo2-6-1.jpg

Plus

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/photo4-3-1.jpg

Plus

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/photo3-4-1.jpg

will equal color matched trim rings. And yes, the left one looks bigger but it isn't. It's just the angle of the picture. If anything the right side ring is biger.

Anyway, I also have the kicks going through final coating before the final coat of high build, sanding, then it's onto the automotive primer, a couple coats of basecoat Toyota EO1, then the clear coat...

This should all be done by next week.

Then it's about epoxying the rings onto the door panels. Cross your fingers. Lots of pics to come.

[sqcomp]

Oh! And we're working out the tooling details on the Legatia 13 Pro subwoofer...

:)

I think you'll like it.

[derickveliz2]

Oh! And we're working out the tooling details on the Legatia 13 Pro subwoofer...

:)

I think you'll like it.

When ever you are done, send it to me I'll do the photo shoot!

D.

[derickveliz2]

After hearing this on your headphones, get it into your car. Let me know what your thoughts are.



Ok, I did it!

On the headphones sounds truly amazing, in the car it's a complete different experience...

First you got to think you are inside someones head and the ears are located where the sail panels are.

When Manuel turns his head away you can feel that, but he is outside the car, like I wrote above it's like the car becomes your head, so every thing happens out side the car.

When Manuel opens the door calling Luigi it's like the car is parked inside a big garage and the door is about 2 feet from the bumper of my car towards the right side, and Luigi is in another room even further away.

Manuel then sits on the left side about a foot from the left rear view mirror, a little lower like if he sits on a chair. Then Luigi comes in and goes to the right side and grabs the plastic bag, now when he puts it on top, it's like putting a huge bag over the car, it covers the complete cockpit from mirror to mirror.

Then Luigi moves to the right side and washes his hands the faucet feels like it's just beyond the right mirror, symmetrically at the same time the phone "rings" on the left side. Guido tells Manuel to pick up and I like when Manuel puts his guitar down and hits the floor.

When Luigi knocks on your head feels like he is hitting the top of the windshield on the left side. When Luigi snaps the fingers they are outside on the mirrors, then the scissors... every thing is outside the car starts on the right side right about the mirror then gets closer to the glass, BUT... never goes behind that just doesn't happen. Just moves in front of you to the left, outside the glass towards he mirror. When it moves to the top of the hair, it just goes in the center up above the windshield.

Same for the electric razor like the scissors but he doesn't goes above the head.

Then when Luigi walks around feels like he is walking outside the car from right to left. When he whispers "Cetera" in your left ear, is right where the left sail panel touches the a-pillar.


I'll try to make a diagram later.

D.

[sqcomp]

Is this track awesome or what? Talk about testing boundaries!

[derickveliz2]

Is this track awesome or what? Talk about testing boundaries!

Track is absolutely AWESOME!

Specially with headphones! in the car sounds amazing too but it wasn't create it to be played in a car, even though it's awesome and a little odd to believe it's possible, there are some things off, like going with the scissors behind your head, or whispering in your ear happens at sail panel area like I said before is like you are inside your head.

Boundaries... it's 3Dimentional excellent. With the headphones and in the car, to the sides left and right, back and front (no back for car) up and down, many layers starting with your ears(glass), around you in a room(outside your car), and a door that leads to another room(far forward).

I had my wife and son go through the track (earphones only) and my wife didn't stop saying... "how can they do that?"

I would love to talk to this guys to make tracks for our cars, that would be really COOL!

That assures me that GOOD quality recorded music really makes a difference in car and home audio.

D.

[derickveliz2]

Here is the track (in youtube)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDTlvagjJA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDTlvagjJA


D.

[derickveliz2]

Ok, I did it!

I'll try to make a diagram later.

D.

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/VirtualBarberShop.png



D.

[sqcomp]

That makes sense because this is working as a binaural recording. Your head just got to be the size of the car. IMHO it shouldn't matter that it's a car because we're still working with left and right...like headphones.

I'm making this a standard for my demo.

[sqcomp]

Base coat is on:

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0250.jpg

Three coats of Toyota OE1 base coat. The kick has three coats of automotive primer so far.

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0246.jpg

[derickveliz2]

Looking good! any more shots of the kicks? I think I'm just going to use the OEM kicks and cut a hole, then cover with grill cloth, for the Mid-Bass (LOWS) I'm still thinking about it.

D.

[derickveliz2]

PAT M, sent me a few tracks, some similar to the virtual hair cut, the effect is good, but not as good compare to headphones, also sent me some bachata songs! that rock the Latin way!

Thanks PAT M.

[sqcomp]

I actually do have the kicks installed at this point...BUT...

I've got another plan for the door panels that I'm exploring right now. I think I'll hold off on pictures of the area until I'm done with the panels.

[derickveliz2]

I worked on more deadening, and guess what??

This is GREAT! very simple and effective:

There is something very easy to do that kills most of the engine noise and kills completely the noise from the little motor and mechanism of the wipers!

Materials used less than 3 square feet of MLV, 1 sq ft of thick MAT and left overs of 1/4 ccFoam, Time about 2 hours (for me at midnight)

Will try to explain later with more details.
Driving at about 80mph RPMs are around 3.5K and it's very quiet! 4k RPMs at 90mph and still very quiet! (O:

D.

[yojabbajabba]

I worked on more deadening, and guess what??

This is GREAT! very simple and effective:

There is something very easy to do that kills most of the engine noise and kills completely the noise from the little motor and mechanism of the wipers!

Materials used less than 3 square feet of MLV, 1 sq ft of thick MAT and left overs of 1/4 ccFoam, Time about 2 hours (for me at midnight)

Will try to explain later with more details.
Driving at about 80mph RPMs are around 3.5K and it's very quiet! 4k RPMs at 90mph and still very quiet! (O:

D.
.... you've left us hanging! Aduh! Can't wait to hear where the sweet spots are!

[derickveliz2]

Sorry, over the weekend I try to spend more time with my family, and try to avoid computer contact, jeje.

Well...
You know me I'm chasing noise all the time and after treating most of the areas in the car, I still get road noise in the cabin! what kind of noise:

Engine Noise

Wind Noise

The little Motor from the Windshield wipers

So I took off the wipers, lift the plastic cover and exposed the wipers motor system on the pilots side and a big opening into the cabin (COWL TO REGISTER DUCT SUB-ASSEMBLY), where the air goes into the interior air filter.

I knew that engine noise will hit the hood and travel up ward towards the windshield and the glass will transmit the noise inside, I'm aware of the wind hitting the windshield adding extra noise, but inspecting this area it's like a long channel made of very thing metal between the engine and the fire wall, right where the windshield begins and it goes from side to side (COWL TOP PANEL OUTER). See images below...

So I started adding some thick MAT (little peaces of CLD Tiles) along this channel, only in the inside, to prevent from reverberating due to the engine noise and transmitting that into the cabin via the windshield and the big opening for the fresh air that goes inside the cabin.

2 issues to resolve, "water" and "air flow" I can't really sealed. I start cutting small pieces of MLV the biggest one with a long shape (see picture below) and just lay it down on the passengers side, I cut 2 smaller ones for the pilot side that I slide under the wiper's electric motor, one more piece of MLV slightly bigger than the opening for fresh air, I cut 2 small triangles on the top side to prevent blocking the air flow.

Doing this I just hit 3 balls in a row, Engine noise, Wind noise, and wiper's noise. I know it's not completely sealed, but it doesn't need to, think MLV as sound barriers like the ones along highways, big solid walls blocking transit noise towards houses along the road.

The end result, a big change, why I didn't do this before, it's so easy and effective!

D.




http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Deadening%20Part%204/030312093526.jpg

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Deadening%20Part%204/CowlTopPanel.png

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Deadening%20Part%204/Fullscreencapture35201212137AMbmp.jpg

[derickveliz2]

Re-cap...

FRONT STAGE HISTORY...

1st image: very narrow stage, image no good

then...

2nd image: better image but still narrow stage

and now...

3rd image: sweet!


1: very narrow stage, image no good
http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/NarrowStaged.png

2: better image but still narrow stage
http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/A-Pillars%20v2/3e6876b9.jpg

3: sweet! the BEST so far for me.
http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/WITHAMPS-1.png

D.

[sqcomp]

I can say that I've come to the same conclusion. The height on the second setup is probably the best...or at least how I had mine was. Still though, the trade off leans me more towards the third setup.

[derickveliz2]

I can say that I've come to the same conclusion. The height on the second setup is probably the best...or at least how I had mine was. Still though, the trade off leans me more towards the third setup.

I don't miss the height, because it's up there! I would never go back to mids on a-pillars, at least in a Yaris.

How is the new HAT woofer?

I'm doing a demo tomorrow.... another P99 owner with Focal speakers mmm... we'll see!

D.

[sqcomp]

The new woofer is going to tooling soon. We should have a test mule in a month or two for testing.

[derickveliz2]

I'm doing a demo tomorrow.... another P99 owner with Focal speakers mmm... we'll see!

D.

If this had been a competition, guess who WON!.... :thumbup:



ps....
That's him: p99rs, boston acoustics gt-5750: focal 165vrs, seas tffnc/g and focal sb25a1; rockford fosgate r150-2: tang band 1362sa


D.

.

[sqcomp]

...I'd bet you you'd be even better with an SE midrange in there...

I wish I could be there mang. Still, I have complete confidence in what you're doing D. I also wish you could be down at Spring Break in Daytona over the weekend of the 23rd. There's going to be world class systems going head to head in competition. I know you'd dig that.

Was it Focal's shallow mount Polyglass line component mid bass you were listening to? A Boston Acoustics 5 channel (75 x 5 & 250 x 1), a preloaded Focal woofer, a SEAS tweeter, What was the Tang Band and the RF amp for?

[derickveliz2]

...I'd bet you you'd be even better with an SE midrange in there...

I wish I could be there mang. Still, I have complete confidence in what you're doing D. I also wish you could be down at Spring Break in Daytona over the weekend of the 23rd. There's going to be world class systems going head to head in competition. I know you'd dig that.

Was it Focal's shallow mount Polyglass line component mid bass you were listening to? A Boston Acoustics 5 channel (75 x 5 & 250 x 1), a preloaded Focal woofer, a SEAS tweeter, What was the Tang Band and the RF amp for?

I know L3SEs is what I'm missing now, to be a complete HAT system. (some day!)

I wish you where here too, you would be proud of me! I wish I could go to Daytona, but... that's the price I have to pay for 2 beautiful children that keep me and my lovely wife very busy. (O:

I think he had the TB on the doors, the 3" Focal and SEAS tweeters on PVC pods up on the a-pillars, and 10 in Focal woofer in a ported box in the back, Yes 2 amps the BA and the RF, on a 05 Toyota Matrix.

D.

[derickveliz2]

I had this asked many times in other forums, and I would like to share here:

Lets talk about deadening a car:

Ok, first lets recognize there are 2 types of deadening, what is your target?

1.- a system to Block noise (road, engine, wind, rain, exhaust, etc)

2.- a system to reduce rattles and condition a car acoustically (also helps to reduce road noise but not as effective as #1


To accomplish 1, you need:
-CLD Tiles (expensive) you only need to cover 25% of the area this prevents vibrations
-CCFoam 1/8" or 1/4" works good, this helps absorb high frequencies and prevent rattles
-MLV, mass loaded vinyl, to block the noise

To accomplish 2, you need:
-inexpensive MAT, 1 or 2 layers of 100 coverage is common. You can use expensive stuff too, but that is up to you!
-CCFoam 1/8" to prevent rattles and smooth edges

For example, I did #1 on the floors and wheel wells,
I did #1 on the rear doors (no speakers there)
I did #1 and #2 on front doors where my Mid-Bass speakers are.

so... what would you like to accomplish?

Here is some good reading:

LINK (http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi)

D.

[sqcomp]

How was his stage height and width?

[derickveliz2]

How was his stage height and width?

Height was 2-3 inches above dashboard (1 or 2 inches under my chin)

Width was not good on SQ tracks like Left, Right Center about 2-3 inches inside the a-pillars very narrow, in some songs was just a little bit wider but that was because MIds+Tweets where aiming at center of the car, more on axis and reflexions on the side glass made it feel slightly wider but once we opened the windows the width was gone.

Center image was not in the center, way over to the left side almost touching the Mids right in front of my face, Time Alignment wasn't done properly the same for x-over points, didn't aloud for Point source! Mid-Bass (LOWs) cross above 600 Hz and Mids sounded hallow in 3.5" PVC caps

D.

[TOLMACH]

Height was 2-3 inches above dashboard (1 or 2 inches under my chin)

Width was not good on SQ tracks like Left, Right Center about 2-3 inches inside the a-pillars very narrow, in some songs was just a little bit wider but that was because MIds+Tweets where aiming at center of the car, more on axis and reflexions on the side glass made it feel slightly wider but once we opened the windows the width was gone.

Center image was not in the center, way over to the left side almost touching the Mids right in front of my face, Time Alignment wasn't done properly the same for x-over points, didn't aloud for Point source! Mid-Bass (LOWs) cross above 600 Hz and Mids sounded hallow in 3.5" PVC caps

D.

How did his system sound?

Do you guys buy stuff to listen and enjoy music or you buy music to listen to the stuff that you installed ?


:confused:

[derickveliz2]

At PJM...

My amps are behind front seats...

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/WITHAMPS-1.png

D.

[derickveliz2]

How did his system sound?

Do you guys buy stuff to listen and enjoy music or you buy music to listen to the stuff that you installed ?


:confused:

He's system is miles behind mine (install and tunning), he has mids and tweeters similar to what I did at the beginning (see image below)

He doesn't understands PLDs, Time Alignment, Imaging, staging, linearity, tonal accuracy, depth, point source, width and center image along with other stuff, so his HU (another P99 like mine) makes every thing sound, crisp and clean but the 3D factor is missing from the equation.

So far I didn't have to pay for any Reference Tracks (I would now that I know how important and beneficial are), I do enjoy my music specially after using Tracks to improve my system.

It's not just about "sounds good and loud", to me the COOL FACTOR is 3Dimensional!

D.

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/NarrowStaged.png

[derickveliz2]

Did I forget to mention that the BASS was from a focal sb25a1.... Here is where the I6SW shines! not only because it's up front but this 10" woofer in a ported box falls short compare to the I6SW.

The I6SW it's so cool, it's not like other woofers that hurt your ears and make all the car shake, it's like a hard thump that hits your chest.

http://magnitola.ru/images/items/sb-25-A1-cat.jpg

vrs...

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/IDQ/I6SW/th_c78ef95a.jpg?t=1313560060

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/IDQ/I6SW/th_cdbdc241.jpg?t=1313560920

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/IDQ/I6SW/th_36aadcf0.jpg?t=1318483578

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/IDQ/I6SW/th_0df6c4e4.jpg?t=1319174431

D.

[derickveliz2]

Some other info about deadening... NOTE: this is some information I saved trying to help another car-audio enthusiast, you can take this as an advice, but not like a book, many people have their own opinions and we respect them all.

Noise comes from the road, tires, engine. Focus on the floor, wheel wells, fire wall!

Yes treat the doors like speaker boxes, you will need some extra mat to give the metal some mass and ccfoam to prevent ratles + MLV to block road noise.

Next: (measure in square feet)
-doors
-floor
-wheel wells
-quarter panels

Basic rule of thumb you only need 25% of a flat area to cover with Tiles, these are expensive and it's good to spend the money here, for example, a door is 4 sf you need 1 sf of tiles

CLD Tiles I recommend you buy them with Don Sambroke or Second Skin

LINK 1 (http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/products/cld)

LINK 2 (http://secondskinaudio.com/)

also buy at least 2 ropes of butyl LINK 3 (http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/products/ebr)

Glue for MLV and heavy duty velcro in LINK 4 (http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/products/hh6)

You can also buy 1/4" ccfoam from Don in LINK 5 (http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/products/ccf)

now all these is what you need for deadening your car for road noise, and rattles...

but for example the doors you will need more mass from any kind of MAT (don't use CLD Tiles too expensive), you can buy any one you like, I got mine from Rick at RAAMAT (http://www.raamaudio.com/) it's cheap and works OK, LINK 6 (http://www.raamaudio.com/)

so lets say you have 100 sf of area to work with (I did 100 so you can come up with a percentage)

100 sf of MLV (this one you can buy cheap here LINK 7 (http://shop3.mailordercentral.com/supersoundproofing/prodinfo.asp?number=09-00005-48) or buy from Don or Second skin, but it's a little bit more expensive.

100 sf of ccfoam, get 50sf of 1/8" and 50sf of 1/4" Don sells you the best one in this class, Second Skin is a little bit more expensive. You can also get this stuff from Rick but it's very thin but sticks like a steaker LINK 9 (http://www.raamaudio.com/products/Ensolite-IUO-Peel-and-Stick.html)

25 sf of CLD Tiles from LINK 1 (http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/products/cld)

and 50 sf of any MAT you like, in my case from RAAMAT (http://www.raamaudio.com/) ** I was just checking with raamaudio and they don't carry any more the cheap stuff, try to call Rick and ask him if he still carries the old RAAMmat I . the new stuff is here LINK 8 (http://www.raamaudio.com/products/RAAMmat-BXT-II.html)

or if you want to get all at once and save on shipping call Don Sambroke and tell him my name (Derick Veliz) [I did this at the beginning then I needed some extra stuff and I got it at LINK 7 (http://soundproofing.org/)



D.

[patm]

Nice summary for reference.

[derickveliz2]

Nice summary for reference.

Thanks PATM,

here is a sketch (a door section)... deadening:

NOTE: this is more for a door with a Mid-bass speaker in other words for FRONT Doors!

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Deadening%20Part%204/DOORSECTIONiii.png

D.

[derickveliz2]

I was going to attempt tuning using Pink noise and my ears according to these methods (LINK1 (http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/how-articles-provided-our-members/96196-precision-time-alignment-using-only-noise-tracks-your-ears.html), LINK2 (http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/general-car-audio-discussion-no-question-dumb/125069-better-technique-ear-time-alignment.html))

well... don't tell any body I did this when I was driving to work! this is not an appropriate way of tuning, but I got good results, and I wanted to share with you!


It really works! in a few words, I can say it gave my system a BOLD feeling! Bass is much better and I can crank the volume a little bit more with out distortion!

Stage height, width and depth was improved!

I get a better feeling of layers in my stage now!


Image got much better because I Had stuff gathered on the left and right and center wasn't perfect:

*_*_*______*______*_*_*



Now I get a better distribution: (in songs)

*__*__*____*____*__*__*



Now the funny part is when I play my favorite songs they sound really good, very natural and they sound great! but when I play tracks like the 7 drums for example my image gets screw up: I don't care really, because when I play music is much better than before.

This is my stage with the 7 drum track:

*_*_*_____*__*______*_*





These are images of (A)Auto TA/EQ, after tuning with this (B)method.

(A) AUTO TA
http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/TA_Feb162012.jpg


(B) AFTER
http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/TAwithPinknWhitenoise.jpg



I will do it again in a quiet place and with the engine turned off. will share results after...


D.

[sqcomp]

That's strange...on the sub measurement. We all know it's up front and really close. Not saying that it's "wrong" per se, just strange.

[derickveliz2]

That's strange...on the sub measurement. We all know it's up front and really close. Not saying that it's "wrong" per se, just strange.



On the Auto TA, EQ.... Yes but that's the default on the HU, just think about it...


zero (0) delay is 155.39 inches is the max number in the P99 scale, so zero (0) is the max delay, as the location of each speaker is closer to ears delay increases. Yes my woofer is in front, and my farthest speaker(s) are my Mids and Mid-bass, and you can see that reflected on the image below



These are TA after performing the method shown below the pictures, the only difference is that I did use Pink and White noise:

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/TAwithPinknWhitenoise.jpg

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/WITHAMPS-1.png

D.


Copied from "fcarpio" a member of DIYMA:

" A better technique for "ear" time alignment?
There is a technique for adjusting your time alignment by ear in this forum. It has to do with playing white noise and listening for the "warble" effect as you adjust the time. That technique has NOT worked out for me as I suck when it comes to listen for the white noise "warble".

I just want to share another technique for time alignment that comes from another field I have an interest. Let me start by discussing the technique and how I applied it to car audio. The technique in question is a method for getting two (or more) microphones in phase. This technique is well known by musicians and recording engineers. It is used for miking guitar cabinets to get a fuller sound and it is also good for noise cancellation. Two microphones in phase record a bigger and fuller sound, specially good for metal (distorted) guitars. Two microphones out of phase are good for spoken word in a noisy environment where one mic will capture the voice and noise and the other only the noise with its phase inverted. when you add up the two signals you get "noise cancellation" and the voice remains intact.

How do you get the mics in phase?
The human voice and the guitar are mono signals, but for this example I will pick on the guitar (no pun intended). We first get an idea of where do we like the mics to be by listening to the signal while we move them around in front of the guitar cab. Then we proceed to fix the first mic in place. Now the fun part, we are going to monitor the signal from both mics in "mono" with the second mic set to 180 degrees out of phase. We are going to start moving the second mic around the location that we liked until the monitored mono signal gets to the thinnest and weakest point. Now we fix the second mic in place and switch the out of phase setting back to normal and your mics are now perfectly in phase.

How do I apply this technique to car audio?
Easy. The only requirement is that you have to be able to feed a mono signal to your speakers and be able to isolate the sound of two speakers at a time. For this example I am going to assume you have a mono sub, so the first speaker pair to time align would be the sub and your right mid speaker. You are going to have to adjust the crossover a bit to get some overlapping frequencies, say 80Hz to 250Hz on both. Also try to keep the levels to sound even as it will make it easier to listen to both speakers at the same time. We are going to start the time alignment of the mid with respect to the sub. The technique only works if you can set the speaker that we want to time align out of phase, you may have to do this manually if you don't have a dedicated switch for it. You don't need white noise, your favorite song actually works best. In my opinion, a recording that has a bit of everything as far as frequencies go works very well (Bass for subs and mids, female voice for mids, guitar solos and cymbals for highs, you get the idea). Start delaying the signal of the mid a little at a time and listen for the signal to start cancelling. You are going to look for the point where it sounds its worst (weak and thin). Once you find it that will be your setting and you can now bring the mid back in phase. Now your right mid and subs are in phase. The next step will be to mute the sub and unmute the other mid. Don't forget to revert the settings on your crossover, both mids should have similar crossover settings now. Now you are going to do the same thing with the left mid, you are going to time align the left mid with respect to the right mid. The only time alignment you are doing at this point is to the left mid only as the right mid is already aligned with the subs. You are going to set the left mid out of phase and start increasing the time and listen for the signal to start to cancel and to sound weak, thin and unfocused. Find the worst sound and that is where you want to be. Now the fun part, bring the left mid back in phase and you will immediately hear the sound JUMP in front of you. That is because your two mids are PERFECTLY time aligned.

Now you are going to mute your right mid and unmute your left tweeter. What you want to try to do is to time align speaker that are opposite to each other (one left and one right) and try to have their frequencies overlap a bit but safely. If you have your crossover set to not overlap you will not be able to align a mid with respect to a sub, nor you will be able to align a tweeter with respect to a mid. If there is no frequency overlap there will be little or no cancellation to listen for when out of phase. Just repeat the process until you are done.

I hope this helps and please post your comments with the results you get."

[sqcomp]

That has to be the longest explanation for flip your speakers out of phase, adjust the time alignment until they sound their worst, and then flip the phase back into alignment and you'll be set.

Sounds like a fun excersise!

What I'm wary about is the absolute need to have all speakers level on their output. While I agree that this is a neat technique, adjusting level setting is an essential tool that needs to remain on the plate as an option to adjustment.

For me, I've never had any phase issues after a tune, first of all I do flip phasing and adjust already, but I don't leave it there or start at that point of setting phase.

[derickveliz2]

That has to be the longest explanation for flip your speakers out of phase, adjust the time alignment until they sound their worst, and then flip the phase back into alignment and you'll be set.

Sounds like a fun excersise!

It is!

You made it sound so easy,

Now I have to find time to do it at 0 mph in a quiet area. Also I should level of each speaker pair first, and start with Sub+Left Mid-bass since the sub is a little over the right. I'm still thinking I should start from the Right Mid and work my way up to tweeters and down to Mid-bass and woofer :iono:

D.

[sqcomp]

I have another roadmap that is a little more involved. Holler at me if you want a step by step after you try this.

[derickveliz2]

I have another roadmap that is a little more involved. Holler at me if you want a step by step after you try this.

OK


D.

[derickveliz2]

I was in Boston today, 70 F beautiful day!

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/419607_3159942110251_1016233722_33020278_145207003 _n.jpg

[derickveliz2]

My tires are wearing out, I can hear they are noisier than before!

D.

[sqcomp]

Are touring tires with a taller wall an option for you?

[derickveliz2]

Are touring tires with a taller wall an option for you?

Yes if they are on my OEM 15" wheels.

It's a matter of Looks vs comfort, original size are skinny tires and getting touring, fuel efficiency tires work best but don't look as good, my black wheels are 16" and choosing a good tire works ok with comfort and looks, but 195/50/16 is not a very common size.

The General Exclaim UHP I've been using are great! very quiet, good grip, good looking, I have so far 40K miles on them and I guess I still can get another 10K or 15K miles, But TireRack doesn't carry any more (that size). So maybe I'll be looking at some thing like ExtremeContact DWS, or General G-MAX AS-03, at this point I don't know... time will tell (o:

http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/general/ge_exclaim_uhp_ci2_l.jpg

http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/general/ge_gmax_as03_ci2_l.jpg

D.

[sqcomp]

This is where I step back. I don't even have aftermarket rims on mine yet. I'm still waiting to lower it...happening this week sometime...

[derickveliz2]

This is where I step back. I don't even have aftermarket rims on mine yet. I'm still waiting to lower it...happening this week sometime...

You going to fall in love with your Yaris's low ride, I beg you to get a sway bar, have Garm send you one, even the 19mm is awesome! This combination transforms a Yaris into a little race car (at corners and ramps) very stable on windy days at highway speeds.

The only problem going low and getting wheels is the offset, most of the time you could end up with rubbing problems, but there are a couple of ways to be safe.

D.

[sqcomp]

I just put on the Eibach Pro kit this evening. It's going to be interesting to feel the car settle in. Already I can feel and see the car NOT lurch forward under braking and with the gear changes. What suprised me was how simply Toyota made the rear spring setup. Basically just a "cup" on the lower axle that presses the rear spring onto the unibody. literally two minutes per side on the rear.

I'll look at that sway bar. It was one of the first things I took off after the wheels...the factory bar that is.

[sickpuppy1]

Either size sway bar. If its mostly just day to day, then the 19 is good. Its waht I have on my sedan. But I do wish I had gotten the 23mm alot of times. I like to "hook up" around corner and I think the 23mm would have given me the little extra I want at times. Without sacrificing ride too. I still need to get springs under mine also....

[derickveliz2]

I'll look at that sway bar. It was one of the first things I took off after the wheels...the factory bar that is.

There is no factory bar... :eek: LOL

D.

[derickveliz2]

Either size sway bar. If its mostly just day to day, then the 19 is good. Its waht I have on my sedan. But I do wish I had gotten the 23mm alot of times. I like to "hook up" around corner and I think the 23mm would have given me the little extra I want at times. Without sacrificing ride too. I still need to get springs under mine also....

X 2... me too on the 23mm one day I will upgrade!

I have 19mm and love it,

It's the combination of lowering springs + sway bar that gives you that sport feel.

D.

[alfredyeez]

Some other info about deadening... NOTE: this is some information I saved trying to help another car-audio enthusiast, you can take this as an advice, but not like a book, many people have their own opinions and we respect them all.

Noise comes from the road, tires, engine. Focus on the floor, wheel wells, fire wall!

Yes treat the doors like speaker boxes, you will need some extra mat to give the metal some mass and ccfoam to prevent ratles + MLV to block road noise.

Next: (measure in square feet)
-doors
-floor
-wheel wells
-quarter panels

Basic rule of thumb you only need 25% of a flat area to cover with Tiles, these are expensive and it's good to spend the money here, for example, a door is 4 sf you need 1 sf of tiles

CLD Tiles I recommend you buy them with Don Sambroke or Second Skin

LINK 1 (http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/products/cld)

LINK 2 (http://secondskinaudio.com/)

also buy at least 2 ropes of butyl LINK 3 (http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/products/ebr)

Glue for MLV and heavy duty velcro in LINK 4 (http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/products/hh6)

You can also buy 1/4" ccfoam from Don in LINK 5 (http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/products/ccf)

now all these is what you need for deadening your car for road noise, and rattles...

but for example the doors you will need more mass from any kind of MAT (don't use CLD Tiles too expensive), you can buy any one you like, I got mine from Rick at RAAMAT (http://www.raamaudio.com/) it's cheap and works OK, LINK 6 (http://www.raamaudio.com/)

so lets say you have 100 sf of area to work with (I did 100 so you can come up with a percentage)

100 sf of MLV (this one you can buy cheap here LINK 7 (http://shop3.mailordercentral.com/supersoundproofing/prodinfo.asp?number=09-00005-48) or buy from Don or Second skin, but it's a little bit more expensive.

100 sf of ccfoam, get 50sf of 1/8" and 50sf of 1/4" Don sells you the best one in this class, Second Skin is a little bit more expensive. You can also get this stuff from Rick but it's very thin but sticks like a steaker LINK 9 (http://www.raamaudio.com/products/Ensolite-IUO-Peel-and-Stick.html)

25 sf of CLD Tiles from LINK 1 (http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/products/cld)

and 50 sf of any MAT you like, in my case from RAAMAT (http://www.raamaudio.com/) ** I was just checking with raamaudio and they don't carry any more the cheap stuff, try to call Rick and ask him if he still carries the old RAAMmat I . the new stuff is here LINK 8 (http://www.raamaudio.com/products/RAAMmat-BXT-II.html)

or if you want to get all at once and save on shipping call Don Sambroke and tell him my name (Derick Veliz) [I did this at the beginning then I needed some extra stuff and I got it at LINK 7 (http://soundproofing.org/)



D.

Nice job on your car!!!

Been following your posts and noticed that you have not used any 3M Thinsulate™ Acoustic that's also available from Don.

Any particular reason?

Thanks

[sqcomp]

Thinsulate Acoustic? Interesting. 3M is a reputable name...

Who is Don Smabroke?

[derickveliz2]

Thinsulate Acoustic? Interesting. 3M is a reputable name...

Who is Don Smabroke?

Don is the guy who taught me how to kill road noise at the beginning of my thread, this is his website:

LINK (http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi)

D.

[derickveliz2]

Nice job on your car!!!

Been following your posts and noticed that you have not used any 3M Thinsulate™ Acoustic that's also available from Don.

Any particular reason?

Thanks

It just came into the market, back then Don recommended me to use a heat barrier (see below) the 3M Thinsulate Acoustic is brand new and works as a combination of a heat barrier plus some CCFoam, that reflects heat and absorbs noise... but it's not a "sound barrier" it self Like MLV!

I used the a radiant barrier most of the floor where the exhaust is under to protect the amps from heat and under the dashboard to protect the HU.


See POST # 263 and 295 for more information below...

D.
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________________

POST #263

I was describing to my wife all the different layers of sound deadening material you're doing and she said it sounds like you're creating a mobil sensory deprivation chamber! :laugh:

I wish! but sounds COOL ..............:w00t:




and Talking about layers I just added one MORE!

Radiant Barrier (http://www.homedepot.com/Building-Materials-Insulation-Radiant-Barrier/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xnkZbedf/R-100012574/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053)

I'm putting this along the center channel and other areas after applying CLD Tiles and before CCF adn MLV, I've driving with no center console, bare metal and I can tell it gets HOT!:evil: the other day I had a Hershey chocolate about 4 inches above, and it melted!

I guess this heat going inside the cabin it's good in winter, but not good in summer, any way one more barrier to make the noisy work harder!

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/0a/0a06c370-6a5c-45db-a8ba-25e9c62be107_300.jpg

__________________________________________________ ____________________________________________

POST #295

I'm actually contemplating foregoing any mat on the firewall, and just doing MLV alone.
40sq ft of MLV Then around 25sq ft of mat, and 4 CLD's. that would really cut my costs. I'd be down to around $150, before I was over $200.



OEM deadening material

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Yaris%20Deadening/DSC_9588.jpg



Taking a break!

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Yaris%20Deadening/DSC_9589.jpg


Clean!

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Yaris%20Deadening/DSC_9591-1.jpg



2 CLD Tiles.

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Yaris%20Deadening/DSC_9592.jpg



Some of that Radiant heat insulator...

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Yaris%20Deadening/DSC_9594.jpg


1/4" CCF and ready for MLV

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Yaris%20Deadening/DSC_9595.jpg



With no MLV to work last night I started playing around with the amps, the 3rd amp will be here soon, maybe I'll put it under the passengers seat? or in line with these 2. I didn't realize they where so big and heavy :confused:

"I just added this picture as a reference for the MLV layer on top:"

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Yaris%20Deadening/DSC_9605.jpg








I would use it now, I don't see why not?

D.

[derickveliz2]

Nice job on your car!!!



Thank you!

D.

[alfredyeez]

Thanks for the clarification on Thinsulate.

Will continue to follow the development of your car
:wink:

[patm]

Who is Don Smabroke?

He sells hot dogs at Fenway Park

[sqcomp]

Here is an iPhone take on uncle Larry's Woolcot's Buick presentation from Chris LaCombe:

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/081e5e7e.mp4

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/081e5e7e.mp4

[derickveliz2]

Here is an iPhone take on uncle Larry's Woolcot's Buick presentation from Chris LaCombe:

Thanks! that's an awesome install!

ok, here I go:

1 seat or 2 seats? (looks like a 2 seat)

Install finish looks awesome but how it sounds?

The music in the background... I recognize it!

B. Regal are one of my favorite cars in my personal list.

I really would like to sit in a car like that, I need some thing to compare at, (sound quality speaking) and set up my goals.

D.

[derickveliz2]

Sqcomp... I have a question on the P99

on the specs it says:

"31-band equalizer with independent right and left channel adjustments" SOURCE (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130DEXP99R/Pioneer-Stage-4-DEX-P99RS.html?tp=5684)

how do I adjust Right and Left EQ for each side?

D.

[sqcomp]

D...

We'll get to the P-99. Bear with me.

Who is this (I know the answer), and yes, he has a name tag on...but WHO is he and why does it matter:

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/IMG_0332.jpg

[_S7V7N_]

CEO of Alpine ?

[sqcomp]

Not the CEO.

Steve Brown is Alpine's golden boy installer. He's responsible for some of the most wild and creative installs that have ever been seen...

Recall the Alpine mini cooper and the alpine enter drive Alpine BMW X5 just to name a few? He and Chris Yato are legends in car audio. I captured his attention while the bikini contest was going on...I tried to convince him that Alpine should do a Yaris demo car. The only reason I could give him to do one was practicality. :)

[derickveliz2]

Hey guys, I just did a new thread for Garage Door Bottom Seal "Front Spoiler"

Here is the LINK (http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?p=637430#post637430)


http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Yarisito/Yarisito%20Front%20Spoiler%20S/DSC00211.jpg


D.

[derickveliz2]

I'm amazed on "Tuning" it's been a wonderful experience and learning process.
A year ago I had no clue of what I was looking for, or how my system was going to sound, Time Alignment, Imagine, Depth, Front Stage, X-over points, center image, and many more...

Man I feel like I just know a little bit of the equation and there is so much to learn, this feels like a full time carrier of knowledge and experience, so much fun!

Music sounds so much different, and it's not about how load is it, or how far away people hear me, blowing my ears, There is a mist of audiophile experience, true sound, harmonics, etc and what I like best the 3D factor... awesome!


:thumbsup: Thanks YarisWorld,... here is where every thing started for me. :thumbup:




BTW...
Here is another shot of the new front lip spoiler, but... I guess the camera didn't have enough zoom! LOL

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Yarisito/DSC00021.jpg

ps... can you see me? this is another self portrait photo.

D.

[sqcomp]

Remember all the people who would question you? The ones who were saying that this whole expense of time was a waste?

You are indeed better off for it. I can tell you that i am.

[derickveliz2]

Remember all the people who would question you? The ones who were saying that this whole expense of time was a waste?

You are indeed better off for it. I can tell you that i am.

Thanks, I know what you mean... it's OK with me. And thanks to you for all your knowledge and experience, You have been a key factor in this equation, thanks a million :thumbsup:

Believe it or not...

I get tears in my eyes (happiness) when I'm on the road, listening my music and telling my self... "This is why I worked so hard and spent so many hours in this economy car, it really pays off"... Sounds AWESOME!


Here are my T/A for my Mids
I still have to work more but it's a good start:

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/PLDDRVapril62012.png


D.

[derickveliz2]

I had my cousin test the sweet spot today,
and he was very impressed of the sound, but what called his attention was that he couldn't hear the speakers.
For him it was a strange feeling with a big smile on his face!


BTW he took the picture below! (I really wanted to have a picture like this) too bad he didn't have my SLR at the moment.


BTW.2 I played a little bit with the program TrueRTA this morning... http://www.trueaudio.com/rta_abt1.htm

and I had a peak at 500Hz and the highs (10kHz-up) where I little bit hot, I tune them down and went for a ride (to work)...

D.

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Yarisito/Yaris195Westcopy.jpg

[Tempe]

Damn you guys. I just spent four hours going through this thread. I honestly skimmed through most of it, but I have a lot to think about now. Thank you so much for putting so much time and effort into sharing this with us!

T

[derickveliz2]

You are welcome!

D.

[sqcomp]

I got the car tuned and ready to send off to competition at Lacey, WA tomorrow. Wish me luck.

[_S7V7N_]

Good Luck Sq. Let us know how it goes !

[sqcomp]

Hey D, how about hooking the speakers up to these power sources? I have 100k Watts between The two for you. :)

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/22226dd6.jpg

[_S7V7N_]

Derick have you upgraded your alternator yet if so what brand ? And cost.

And didn't Sq say he talked to a company who made alts down at SBN?

Found post. Imma try to google these guys if not you have a contact number. I think I just want at the most a 200 amp alt if they can do a 175 -180 that would be great.


Also, if you're looking for an aftermarket solution, I talked with Eric Gates from Mechman alternators is Tennessee this afternoon in person at SBN in Daytona. They have the Yaris frames on the shelf and can adapt for any of our needs. Special requests would take two weeks. Eric promised me that there would be no DC Power hijinks going on and that they can and will actually deliver.

[derickveliz2]

I got the car tuned and ready to send off to competition at Lacey, WA tomorrow. Wish me luck.

OH! I'm thrilled! I wish I had the opportunity to be there.

You and me know that it's possible, my system sounds amazing I can't imagine how good yours is, better equipment, more power, it's a winner!

Good Luck and show what a tiny Yaris is capable. I'm sure it's going to be a Blast! take pictures and videos to share.

D.

[derickveliz2]

Derick have you upgraded your alternator yet if so what brand ? And cost.

And didn't Sq say he talked to a company who made alts down at SBN?

Found post. Imma try to google these guys if not you have a contact number. I think I just want at the most a 200 amp alt if they can do a 175 -180 that would be great.

No I never did or think about doing it.

My volt meter shows 14.3 v. at start and then a steady 13.9 for the ride,
with music playing loud with drops at 13.4v. I guess not having a pair of
12" woofers and 1000 watts amplifier keeps me on the safe side.

Big 3 was a good mod for me.

D.

[derickveliz2]

Hey D, how about hooking the speakers up to these power sources? I have 100k Watts between The two for you. :)


What are those for?

I have the feeling that my I6SW would like a little bit more power than the PB amp can deliver (250watts) so I'm trying my old Pioneer amp with 400watts
guess what?....

D.

[sqcomp]

Those are for powering a brigade level Tactical Operations Command center. They'll run 24/7 supplying power daisy chained between the two. If one ever dies, the other kicks on automatically. You should see the three screen setup we have in the main TOC. It's one hell of an XBox screen if you wanted. You should have seen the one we had in Talial Iraq. The main screen was 50' wide IIRC.

Oh hey...

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/32af2731.jpg

We need to get you into competition in the amateur IASCA class! We've got to get you kicking ass and taking names Derick!

[derickveliz2]

Congratulations!!! SQcomp

"1st Place Pro-Am"

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6F3I6vmoBK0/T4zuoOY7qEI/AAAAAAAAn5U/dOi0JX5YQvQ/s586/Fullscreen+capture+4172012+121530+AM.bmp.jpg


D.


.

[sqcomp]

Derick,

Following up with the e-mail I dropped you tonight...

Go to the Audio section on your deck.

get to the 1/3 octave EQ portion.

Notice the L & R indicators? Selecting the EQ for either side is as simple as pressing the audio button in for three seconds. Then it should flip to either L or R to make specific side based adjustments.

Give it a try.

[sickpuppy1]

My ,what a sour puss in the pick,lol would it hurt that much to smile for winning.

[sqcomp]

That's Mike Peterson. He's a good man. Just the wrong split second camera shot.

[derickveliz2]

Derick,
Go to the Audio section on your deck.
get to the 1/3 octave EQ portion.
Notice the L & R indicators? Selecting the EQ for either side is as simple as pressing the audio button in for three seconds. Then it should flip to either L or R to make specific side based adjustments.
Give it a try.

Thanks! I got it.

now lets get to learn and work... what do you think about these:

"When you are satisfied with the tonality of the system, it is time to start adjusting the left and right channels separately. These adjustments should not affect the tonality, but improve on the imaging and soundstaging. Using the Autosound 2000 Test CD 102 or 103 “My Disk” listen to the individual frequency pink noise tracks. (Test CD103 has the tracks arranged in an easier configuration.) Each frequency band should sound like it is coming from the center of the soundstage. If one band is off to one side, then use each band’s left and right eq controls as a balance control. This is very similar to the head unit’s balance control, only now you are balancing each frequency band by itself. For example if 200 Hz seems to be shifted to the left of center, lower the left 200 Hz band and raise the right 200 Hz band one dB at a time until the band is centered. If a frequency is shifted to the right, lower the band’s right channel and raise the left channel in small amounts." from a DIYMA member.

and this one....


"I must say that all I did was burn a CD that contained 0db tones that matched each one of the 31 bands on my EQ. Then I sat in my car for about 10 minutes and played each tone starting low and going up high. I kept my head perfectly still in the position I would normally drive down the road in.

Then I played each tone and adjusted the R and L EQ (graphic) and just played with cutting the R and then boosting the L and vice versa until I felt the sound was centered. Some bands needed up to +/- 3db and others needed no adjustment at all from what I could hear. And some bands I couldn't honestly resolve.

When I was done, I looked at my EQ and it was a MESS! LOL. Flipping back and forth between L and R yielded no pattern or symmetry at all. I thought, no possible way is this going to sound good. So I put in my Audiophile Female Vocal CD and cranked it up.

WELL SLAP MY A... AND CALL ME CHARLIE!! If Rebecca Pidgeon was 3 feet away from me she was a mile! It honestly felt like I had moved back in my seat, but my head had stayed in the same place the whole time. I estimate my stage moved 3" up and about 1 foot away...practially eliminating the windshield all together. I thought my stage was good before, but I damn near greased my shorts.

And the focus! Oh the focus...like I've never heard. Like scary real! Apparently sound recordings are done in actuall rooms, because it sounds like the singer is contained in a space, rather than just singing into a microphone" ... from another DIYMA member even though he has been banned :iono:


D.


.

[derickveliz2]

So for the record... here are my x-over points, EQ and Time Alignment as of today... Before the R - L EQ process:

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/1-DSC_5882.jpg

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/3-DSC_5884.jpg

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/2-DSC_5883.jpg

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/4-DSC_5885.jpg

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/5-DSC_5886.jpg

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/6-DSC_5887.jpg

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/7-DSC_5888.jpg

D.

[packetrace]

:thumbsup::thumbsup:Its amazing what you can do with the P99!!:thumbsup:

[why?]

too bad you couldn't copy your settings onto usb and sell them. That is some amazing stuff.

[sqcomp]

Derick and I discussed a topic close to this yesterday. Even Derick's settings won't work for me...even though we're using similar speakers and the same type of deck (sort of).

Aiming, placement, speaker differences, and available power are just some of the factors that will change the sound from one Yaris to another.

...and damn you Derick! You cheat using that nice camera! :D I'd post up mine tonight if you'd like.

Derick's also not showing that you can change the crossover settings and the EQ from left to right on the P99. THAT is the cherry on top!

[derickveliz2]

Derick and I discussed a topic close to this yesterday. Even Derick's settings won't work for me...even though we're using similar speakers and the same type of deck (sort of).

Aiming, placement, speaker differences, and available power are just some of the factors that will change the sound from one Yaris to another.

...and damn you Derick! You cheat using that nice camera! :D I'd post up mine tonight if you'd like.

Derick's also not showing that you can change the crossover settings and the EQ from left to right on the P99. THAT is the cherry on top!


I agree, for example I told you guys (9 or 10 posts above) I put my old Pioneer amp on the I6SW and my settings changed a lot, one little thing even like 5 or 10 degrees in Aiming makes everything so different, even with the Auto tuning of the P99 the numbers are so different and sounds good, but not good enough.

And the most important factor, every body listens in a different way, what sounds good for me probably won't sound good for some one else.

I didn't cheat using my old Nikon, that is why I like Picasa, makes my pictures look good! Yes please post yours

a cherry on top! yes indeed! it's like having to systems in one!


AUTO... T/A :

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/TA_Feb162012.jpg


Yesterday Manual T/A using my ears and the sub up front:

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/2-DSC_5883.jpg

D.

[sqcomp]

I took a grip of pics tonight with the point and shoot. I'll load them tomorrow night. On e thing I learned tonight was that I can't hear $hit over 17kHz. It was funny to me...I was listening to the 1/3 octave tones and the sound just hit a wall of silence after 16kHz. I'm looking around thinking, "well, damn! No dog whistles for me."

[sickpuppy1]

Yeah but then again, pick which instrument out of the orchestra that goes over 16K. Synthesizer ok, but...

[TOLMACH]

Yeah but then again, pick which instrument out of the orchestra that goes over 16K. Synthesizer ok, but...

i think pink noise generator does the jon nicely.. it usually sits in the third row, fourth place from the left.. next to the horn and oboe

))

[_S7V7N_]

^^^^^ Comment above = ))


http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m539/celebjihad/spiderman_behind_the_scenes.gif

[sqcomp]

You guys can be brutal sometimes!

[_S7V7N_]

Lolll!!!!

[TOLMACH]

I think back in 2007 or 2008 I was playing with my HX-D2 HU and pioneer midranges S01RS (1 gen) . i was crossing them at 16 and 20 khz trying to hear the difference using pink/white noise - and could definitely hear smth.. note sure what exactly but this made me think that I could hear beyond 16 khz ))

[sqcomp]

^This is Tolm

http://cdn.head-fi.org/2/25/350x402px-LL-254210e3_11211463.jpeg

:P

[packetrace]

^This is Tolm

http://cdn.head-fi.org/2/25/350x402px-LL-254210e3_11211463.jpeg

:P

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[_S7V7N_]

You have to be 75% wombat to hear that darn good .

[derickveliz2]

Mmm, that's why I asked my doctor to refer me to an ophthalmologist to test my ears, I'm still good. And I'm Thirty-Ten years old. Jeje + LOL

D.

[TOLMACH]

Mmm, that's why I asked my doctor to refer me to an ophthalmologist to test my ears, I'm still good. And I'm Thirty-Ten years old. Jeje + LOL

D.

What did ophthalmologist say about your ears? )))))) (probably: Mmm... Nice ears, Derick!!)

I know a guy who was a physics student and they staged a lab experiment on who can hear what... most students could hear 16 khz.. around 25 per cent of the group could hear 18 khz (used sine signal)

[packetrace]

With what have they done the test ? Hope its a function generator and not a iphone dog whistles app hahaha

[TOLMACH]

With what have they done the test ? Hope its a function generator and not a iphone dog whistles app hahaha

I guess this took place in early 90s - no iphones yet.. some full range speaker and lab equipment

btw there is a bunch of stuff that can generate sine (and other) signals

[derickveliz2]

I told the doctor that my new job required me to have almost perfect hearing, it was done with some electronic machines and headphones, he played many frequencies and I was told to rise my hand every time I heard something. According to him I was good for the job. What ever that means. LOL

That was almost 2 years ago, I'm going to do another soon, I guess my ears are more prepared this time since we kind of train our ears trying to improve our SQ systems.

D.

[TOLMACH]

I told the doctor that my new job required me to have almost perfect hearing, it was done with some electronic machines and headphones, he played many frequencies and I was told to rise my hand every time I heard something. According to him I was good for the job. What ever that means. LOL

That was almost 2 years ago, I'm going to do another soon, I guess my ears are more prepared this time since we kind of train our ears trying to improve our SQ systems.

D.

my point was re ophthalmologist only.. i realize this is just a typo ))

I also suspect that our obsession with subwoofers has a contrary effect to training our ears to hear stuff (my normal listening level is LOUD or VERY LOUD)

[derickveliz2]

Last year I went to a meet from DIYMA members a couple of SPL guys asked me to sit in their cars, I said yes of course!

they sat me in the passengers side (ok, no SQ or front stage here) then one of them turn on the car and accelerated a little bit (in my mind... trouble here he probably needs a big 3)
... 2 minutes later my ears where making a funny noise Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiii Next time, I told them I was going to wear earplugs Jeje

Then I invited them to listen my Yaris, I remember their faces, one of them told me that next time he would build a SQ system,
and this was long time ago when I had my Mids in spheres up in the a-pillars, next meet I bet they are going to 3.1416 their pants! Jeje (in a good way, they are good friends)


http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/c1bbdf73.jpg

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/af33904f.jpg


D.

[derickveliz2]

Last week story about my old Pioneer amp!

Some one (bigguy from DIYMA), asked me if I would sell him my x720 amp, I told him "yes" but I was going to plug it in my car just to make sure it was working after a year in the closet.

To my surprise the I6SW fell in love with this amp, I guess the extra power was just right. I had people sit in my car and they feel like If I had a 10" woofer in a sealed box, the gain to me with this amp in a positive way is WOW! now feels like a 12"

I wrote back to bigguy... I have bad news and good news, the amp is working, but it works so well, that I'm having second thoughts about selling it. I had it for a week now and love it, this week I'm going back to my other amp and feel/test a couple more times.



It plays beautiful, goes very low and hits my chest the way I like it! and I know... it doesn't have the performance of a full size 12" woofer, when I compare the I6SW with my IDQ12, (both in front) the I6SW gets thumbs up:

1.- I6SW Hits my chest harder than the IDQ12, and the IDQ12 shackes my car a lot more and the seats too (witch I dislike, after a while it's not nice) and if I put the IDQ12 in the trunk, my seat vibrates even more!

2.- IDQ12+1sf box is too big and blocks my Mids and MidBass, in other words... kills my front stage

3.- This one I like: lets say both feel and perform the same, but with the IDQ12 people can hear me coming down the road, but that doesn't happen with the I6SW - that is a plus for me and the I6SW



So for me it's an interesting experience and now I'm thinking... should I get a mono block with about 400-500 watts with a gain control (I really miss that with the x720 since it doesn't comes with that option) and sell the x720 to bigguy? or ...

sell my 5 channel PowerBass amp, buy a new 4 channel and keep the x720 (probably that is what bigguy doesn't want to happen)

I'm open to suggestions, and Bigguy... what ever I do if I decide to sell the x720 you'll be the first one on my list. It's funny I already have a box and packing material from the post office with a label ready.


http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Sound%20System/546e20d0.jpg

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/IDQ/6657c3b5.jpg



D.

[sqcomp]

I've been ruminating on an enclosure idea I'll be looking at tomorrow. I'll fill you in...we may just have a great alternative for sub location...

[derickveliz2]

I've been ruminating on an enclosure idea I'll be looking at tomorrow. I'll fill you in...we may just have a great alternative for sub location...

Sounds good, the only I can see in my future plans is a 2nd I6SW

D.

[why?]

next meet I bet they are going to 3.1416 their pants! Jeje (in a good way, they are good friends)


Had to read that three times before I was sure you actually wrote it. So freakin awesome.

So I know y'all are sq guys, so i have a question, i had a old 10" sub putting out maybe 150 watts normally, i have stock everything and only on the really deep long stuff would the lights dim, the problem is the pressure was too much for me and it gave me headaches. Now I get headaches like crazy anyways, but I was wondering if there are any smaller subs that would still bring out the lows enough but not move the air too much. Something smaller with less power that would still be worth taking the time to install. I know there are both 8" and 6" subs out there, i don't know though if any are worth it.

[packetrace]

Is your yaris really 4x4 :O

[derickveliz2]

Had to read that three times before I was sure you actually wrote it. So freakin awesome.

So I know y'all are sq guys, so i have a question, i had a old 10" sub putting out maybe 150 watts normally, i have stock everything and only on the really deep long stuff would the lights dim, the problem is the pressure was too much for me and it gave me headaches. Now I get headaches like crazy anyways, but I was wondering if there are any smaller subs that would still bring out the lows enough but not move the air too much. Something smaller with less power that would still be worth taking the time to install. I know there are both 8" and 6" subs out there, i don't know though if any are worth it.


More detail? box sf? amp? where is it located?

can't you just lower the gains?

D.

[sqcomp]

I was going to suggest the sub I'm using as a temp solution, but you said less intensity...

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0438.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0439.jpg
^Yes there's a gap. The slope is at 24dB versus the sub's 36dB.

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0440.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0441.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0442.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0443.jpg
^And yet another gap. The tweeters are at a 6dB slope.

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0444.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0445.jpg

[derickveliz2]

SQcomp, tell us a little bit about your new Tweeter install? aiming is very particular and clever...

D.

[packetrace]

Have pics of your new tweeter install ? Like Derick says details about aiming ? I cam very interested since I'll do 2way+sub...!!

[sqcomp]

SQcomp, tell us a little bit about your new Tweeter install? aiming is very particular and clever...

D.

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0413.jpg

Preface:

Next time I do this, I'll make these completely out of plastic. This bonding different materials aggravates me to no end because of the different properties between the different substrates. Blah blah blah...anyway...

The semi horn loading of these pillars seems to add some width and some definite height that I have only experienced with the pillar mounted setup like my last setup. Being much more on axis, I have a hell of an ability to play these tweeters lower as well as hear more definition from said tweeters versus my last pillar setup. Playing the tweeters lower at this particular location keeps the height way up versus being dragged down by the location of the mids in the kicks.

...that and I HAD to do something different that Derick after all...

:cool:

It's all really an experiment. Think about the auditory response you get when you cup your hands near your ears. You can hear things differently. I'm simply playing around with the response of the tweeters by doing this.

I'm also burning time until I take on my next vehicle project...a 1989 Toyota MR2 with a "lightly modded" 3SGTE from a friend and engine builder in kiwiland...

[_S7V7N_]

Nice work Sq !

[packetrace]

This is so awesome!!! Wish I had your telent

[why?]

More detail? box sf? amp? where is it located?

can't you just lower the gains?

D.

i removed it completely a long time ago. It is just too big and old. Just asking to see if you know of any smaller high quality subs.

[_S7V7N_]

i removed it completely a long time ago. It is just too big and old. Just asking to see if you know of any smaller high quality subs.

If you don't mind me asking what type of headunit and or front speakers are you currently running ?

[TOLMACH]

i removed it completely a long time ago. It is just too big and old. Just asking to see if you know of any smaller high quality subs.

While you sure can find quality 8 inch subs.. generally a decent 10 inch driver is still a better investment in terms of price/sq/volume of the enclosure/spl.. It is not a problem to find a decent 10 inch sub which only needs .5 ft3

In case of most 8 inch drivers you would need a pair or a vented box which will not be smaller than 0.5ft3

Nice SQ sub - works well in 14-15 liters which is a pretty small enclosure
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-10-subwoofers/peerless-830452-10-xls-subwoofer/

[derickveliz2]

The semi horn loading of these pillars seems to add some width and some definite height that I have only experienced with the pillar mounted setup like my last setup. Being much more on axis, I have a hell of an ability to play these tweeters lower as well as hear more definition from said tweeters versus my last pillar setup. Playing the tweeters lower at this particular location keeps the height way up versus being dragged down by the location of the mids in the kicks.

...that and I HAD to do something different that Derick after all...


Yes your tweeters can play very low like a champ.

I can tell you know what you are doing, and it's very clever aiming (your tweeter install) still don't see the Dash Mat? don't you get a bunch of reflections from the windshield? I guess you are using these in your favor to obtain a better width any way!


I did try at some point playing my tweeters low but didn't work for me, since my Mids are more set apart from each other than the tweeters

(remember I cut into the a-frame to fit the magnet) and have them almost flush and providing a location "as far forward and as far from each other" making the Mids play more like a point source [from 160Hz to 10kHz] my stage width benefits from that, and keeps a good height! about my nose or say a couple of inches above the speedometer cluster, that to me feels very natural.

I've been thinking about modifying the left tweeter aiming and position [similar to what I did with the Mids where from my point of view both drivers look the same], by cutting deep into the a-pillar so the tweeter sit as far left as possible, maybe combined with the spheres I had before treating diffractions with the soft curbs. Or some thing like that.

I would like you to do a few tests, (I all ready did) and tell me what you get:

1-Playing the track left, center, right mute the tweeters and tell me if your center image shifts slightly to one side,

2-Playing the track left, center, right mute the tweeters and lows, does your center image moves right or left a few inches?

3-Mute the tweeters and play Mids (L4se) all the way up "tweeter less"!




D.

[derickveliz2]

BTW, using sqcomp photo I did an image trying to visualize a front stage, now imagine that this is an hologram and each artist it's playing live music! and you can feel and localize each individual's position in the stage.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-l6LAm16TbiA/T5YqzNyNLvI/AAAAAAAAn7E/x3nx7Le5sJY/s1020/Front+Stage+SQcomp.jpg


D.

[derickveliz2]

At why?

Are you still in the cape?

If so,... I go to Dartmouth MA, once a week, that's not far away from the cape! I'll be more than happy to let you try any of my subwoofers.


D.

[derickveliz2]

Nice SQ sub - works well in 14-15 liters which is a pretty small enclosure
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-10-subwoofers/peerless-830452-10-xls-subwoofer/

That peerless works in almost the same enclosure of one of my Kicker Solo-baric 10" in a sealed box of 0.66 cf But you need a lot of power to make them come alive!

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/images/products/preview/830452.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-HeIcSniwt2k/TJOa1sLZY4I/AAAAAAAAb_I/tVNY4GiwgcA/s720/DSC_4206.JPG

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Sound%20System/424e2108.jpg



There is an Alpine SWR-843D Type-R 8" Subwoofer with a big reputation in the DIYMA that looks very promising in a small box, from $100 to $150 it's not bad either.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41dk30qhxRL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

TOO MANY OPTIONS!!!!

D.

[sqcomp]

D,

Funny thing...I was doing all of what you were asking me to do just last night. I was trying to figure out why exactly my image was moving out to the pillars given lower frequency.

I solved the issue (and completely changed my TA, crossover slopes, and levels) in the process.

Going back to your question, the mids are able to keep the center image BUT...given my location of the mids I like my higher freqs coming from speakers that are unblocked by legs. As we know, blocking the higher frequencies tends to take the sparkle and some detail out of the signal.

As for subwoofers, I won't even get into it with Tolm. Painting subwoofers with such a broad brush isn't the right thing to do. I have my experience and it's a lot different than his sweeping generalizations.

[why?]

First off, thank you everyone for the replies.

If you don't mind me asking what type of headunit and or front speakers are you currently running ?

alpine something or other i bought when i bought the sub amp and had them install it all. I think it was around $400, and it came with an ipod adapter free, which was nice. The shop ran 8 gauge wire and the h/u had a specific slot for the sub. The amp was dirt cheap 150 watt amp, i don't even know the maker, the sub was a 10" JL audio sub that came from my father's system which he bought new in the early 90's.

The other speakers are stock.

While you sure can find quality 8 inch subs.. generally a decent 10 inch driver is still a better investment in terms of price/sq/volume of the enclosure/spl.. It is not a problem to find a decent 10 inch sub which only needs .5 ft3

In case of most 8 inch drivers you would need a pair or a vented box which will not be smaller than 0.5ft3

Nice SQ sub - works well in 14-15 liters which is a pretty small enclosure
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-10-subwoofers/peerless-830452-10-xls-subwoofer/

The problem wasn't the size, it was the output. 150 gave me a headache after half an hour listening, which is so annoying. So basically i am looking for something smaller that still brings out the lows yet doesn't pound it at you full time. The one you linked to looks interesting and def inexpensive, but I don't see a simple output, or if it is there, i missed it.

Found it, 150 watts. That is the problem, for me it is too much for the Yaris, which is incredibly anoying.

At why?

Are you still in the cape?

If so,... I go to Dartmouth MA, once a week, that's not far away from the cape! I'll be more than happy to let you try any of my subwoofers.


D.
I still am, that would be cool, but I know your subs are normal sized. Even when I turned down the sub through the h/u, and the gain on the amp it still gave me a headache. So annoying. I had a 6 speaker system on my computer with an 8" sub that put out a couple hundred watts and it never gave me an issue, so I am guessing it is the small size of the Yaris interior that is the problem for me. I know just enough audio to know i you run a sub at too low a gain you can break it, so I would be looking for something that could run fine on super low watts, maybe only 50 or so. Do they even make anything like that anymore? To be honest it is the reason I haven't even bothered to think about upgrading the speakers, if i spend the money to get a good set and then can't ever listen it would frustrate me to no end.

[_S7V7N_]

Why? Derick had given me dibs on some Hifonics 6.5's if he still has them and if it's okay with him work something out and give them a try. I will end up going a totally different route and it may be just what you're looking for. You could probably even put them in a small enclosure and get a decent sound out of them.

Get a bit of input from D and Sq and see what they think.

And man you cannot kill a speaker by not givin it enough power, if that was the case anytime we turned down our stereo we'd be putting our speakers at risk of "blowing" . Distortion is what kills speakers, what usually happens is beginners tend to think " the amp says 100000 gigawatts" so imma crank it and get the full potential out of it". Well what usually happens is they clip the heck out of the signal and blow the sub.

[sqcomp]

Actually...take a look a amplifier clipping and some causes of...

At this point I'm using a single 8" woofer off that S2b amp. I'm definately NOT under powering it. :)

I'll probably be moving down to a single 6.5" with two passive radiators as a sub stage. I LOVE messing with passives if nothing else for the space savings...that and the cool factor.

[_S7V7N_]

Is it a Digital Designs 8 ? Or HAT ? I flirted with the idea or ordering 2 Skar 8s in a ported box and rock em. I've heard 8's in a ported enclosure can get nassssssy.

Sq you ever messed with Cadence amps ?

[sqcomp]

I have a DD1508 in there right now. It is more than PLENTY as far as output. Actually I have the subsonic filter on the amp going, plus the 20, 25, and 31.5 Hz on the deck is down 12 dB PLUS the level for the subwoofer is down 10 dB.

I do have it wired at 2 Ohms though.

I haven't messed with Cadence amplifiers at this point. Take a look at these subs:

http://jmhaudioconcepts.com/dadsubwoofers

It's also a good way to support the local (to you) economy. James Halter is the man for these.

[_S7V7N_]

If he can do a ported subwoofer box and subs for a good price i'd try anything once.

Heh I cranked up my system over the weekend and did a quick cruise through town, now I hear "ground pounders" cruising by showing off that Distortion !!

Ps if an amp is chrome, has flames and a neon light it has to be pushing at least 5k RMS ! Right ?

[derickveliz2]

I still am, that would be cool, but I know your subs are normal sized.

I can make you change your mind and way of thinking, just by listening at the I6SW (a 6.5" woofer in a ported box) will blow your mind! not your ears. This little puppy is amazing.

We can also try...

the IDq12 in a sealed box
the 10" Bachooka
and 10" kickers

all good if installed properly, for example if I put the IDq12 in the trunk facing towards the back right corner, sounds amazing, but put in in the rear seat facing forward and it a shame, embarrassed of the woofer when playing in the rear seat facing forward

I'll replay to other comments later today, some thing going on right now at work (o:

D.

[why?]

ooh, didn't realize the 16sw was a 6.5. That could work for me. And a pretty darn good price too. (http://store.12velectronics.com/products/-Imagine-I6SW-6.5%22-Subwoofer.html)

I had the JL 10 in a ported box in the back of the hatch with a full interior. Even with the windows open there was too much sound pressure.

I bet you could even kick my butt so I installed it myself. I used to go to school in N Dartmouth, let me know.

The lunatic in me is curious to know if you know how much it weighs. Rofl, 7 lbs.

[TOLMACH]

I was going to suggest the sub I'm using as a temp solution, but you said less intensity...

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0438.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0439.jpg
^Yes there's a gap. The slope is at 24dB versus the sub's 36dB.

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0440.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0441.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0442.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0443.jpg
^And yet another gap. The tweeters are at a 6dB slope.

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0444.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0445.jpg

3.15 khz 1st order for tweeters seems crazily low.. there is also a good chance that you will burn them.. if you want to use the 6db slope my wild guess will be at least 6-6.5 khz (one octave higher)

why such a low (considering slope) crossover point in a 3 way system?

[derickveliz2]

3.15 khz 1st order for tweeters seems crazily low.. there is also a good chance that you will burn them..

Sqcomp's tweeters have a Frequency Range = Fs (580 Hz) – 40,000 Hz, +/- 3 dB

they won't burn...


D.

[derickveliz2]

D,
Going back to your question, the mids are able to keep the center image BUT...given my location of the mids I like my higher freqs coming from speakers that are unblocked by legs. As we know, blocking the higher frequencies tends to take the sparkle and some detail out of the signal.


I had the impression from SB that as long as there is a clear path between your ears and the speakers should work fine.

I like the sparkles from the tweeters above 10kHz up in the a-pillars but I've seen many people go tweeter less. I did try once and it was pretty cool but even pushing the HL-70's I couldn't get them to play high enough.

D.

[TOLMACH]

Sqcomp's tweeters have a Frequency Range = Fs (580 Hz) – 40,000 Hz, +/- 3 dB

they won't burn...


D.

which means you should be crossing your tweeters at at least 1800 Hz @12db slope .. the producer recommends 1800 hz @4 order

I also just learned that HA has passive networks (which look pretty awesome) and it seems that they cross the tweeter at around 3500 hz 12 db (5.6 mF capacitor used paired with some inductance)

http://store.12velectronics.com/products/Legatia%E2%84%A2-L2x-Vertically%252dBiamplified-Passive-Crossover.html

my point is different anyways - just curious why such a low x-over point?

[derickveliz2]

my point is different anyways - just curious why such a low x-over point?

I understand,

some one told me once...

"do what ever it takes so it sounds right"

and like I wrote once... everybody hears different.


My observation when I had my tweeters crossing low, is that it was harder to adjust center image due to reflexions from the windshield and matching with center image on Mids, going back to point source (with Mids) made my tuning easier, sqcomp knows what he is doing for sure and with a purpose. Some times I like the easy way.

But that's just me.

D.

[packetrace]

I have a question...with active filter...and 75W of output on the L1V2...do you need protection ?...75W seems a lot for those little tweeter :S

[TOLMACH]

I have a question...with active filter...and 75W of output on the L1V2...do you need protection ?...75W seems a lot for those little tweeter :S

you will adjust the signal level at your amp (gain) and use the proper crossover point - this is enough to make sure it serves you long time

[_S7V7N_]

Tolmach I hope you're getting more info for that reply you just gave if not it was totally pointless. The guy can't just go and start cranking on dials and everything magically sound good. If I'm right he has 5V preouts we will need to see the input sensitivity on the amp he gets if it's 5V at the min position you have to be very careful with gain. We need a lot more info before we can give advice.

Packet please don't mess with any of your equipment until you fully understand how you are going to tune the amps and set you crossover points, eq's, we will get you a very detailed how to on setting your amp gain.

When that time comes we'll need detailed information on your equipment.

[sqcomp]

Clarification would probably read like this:

Adjusting the gain structure at the source and at the amplifier to not give off a clipped signal from the signal chain as well as a responsible crossover point for the tweeter is the way to go.

Think about it this way, Scott Buwalda is using a JL HD750/1 for each L3SE. He's not blowing speakers. I'm working with 240 Watts (@ 12V) on my L4SEs. I'm doing just fine. Why? Refer to the clarified sentence.

[sqcomp]

I had the impression from SB that as long as there is a clear path between your ears and the speakers should work fine.

I like the sparkles from the tweeters above 10kHz up in the a-pillars but I've seen many people go tweeter less. I did try once and it was pretty cool but even pushing the HL-70's I couldn't get them to play high enough.

D.

I hear that. I'm a freak when it comes to my upper midrange though. Still, you're on to something. In our instance we have the mids tucked in the kick area. That's to necessarily a clear path to the ears. This is why I'm playing around with location and aiming some more...and why you guys haven't seen me complete my front stage. Also recall how Scott's G35 had the L3SEs in the sail panels. THAT is a clear line to the ears.

I'm actually thinking about shimming my driver's side tweeter to aim to the left ear...just for $hits and giggles. I want to hear what happens with the center image. I've also set up some temporary baffles for the L4SEs just to play around with more aiming that way as well.

This is one heck of an experiment between Derick and myself. Between us both, we have some serious R&D time with the front stage acoustics in the Yaris sedan. :bow:

[sqcomp]

which means you should be crossing your tweeters at at least 1800 Hz @12db slope .. the producer recommends 1800 hz @4 order

I also just learned that HA has passive networks (which look pretty awesome) and it seems that they cross the tweeter at around 3500 hz 12 db (5.6 mF capacitor used paired with some inductance)

http://store.12velectronics.com/products/Legatia%E2%84%A2-L2x-Vertically%252dBiamplified-Passive-Crossover.html

my point is different anyways - just curious why such a low x-over point?

I'm now at 3.15 kHz at a 6dB on the right and a 36dB on the left tweeter. I'm playing with response, soundstage, and phasing. I wish it was as simple as just slapping a prefabbed passive crossover on a set of speakers. It's just not. I'm a pillar man, always have been. I'm trying to get the stage width SERIOUSLY wide without sacrificing the center image. There is ALWAYS a give and take.

Before anyone trys to rake me over the coals, I had Scott Buwalda riding in the Yaris on Monday while on our way to dinner. I showed him the crossover points for all the speakers. He didn't have any issue with 3.15kHz at a 6. If the right kicks it, I'll let everyone know and get Scott to re-work the guts of the tweeter (since it is an L1Pro SE and not a mainline production R2 tweeter).

[sqcomp]

Oh! If I do change the pillar setup, I'll reuse these current pillars and do the entire pillar in ABS to reduce the stress points between the different substrate materials (plastic, fiberglass, filler, and MDF).

[derickveliz2]

Just to add more to the equation, I'm playing the I6SW a (Pmax Rated Power Input of 120 watts) with 400 watts. But Yes... I'm very conservative on volume, distortion and abusing speakers!

I know many people over power, but it's like Sqcomp's sample of the BMW vrs Prius, remember that?

D.

[derickveliz2]

ooh, didn't realize the 16sw was a 6.5. That could work for me. And a pretty darn good price too. (http://store.12velectronics.com/products/-Imagine-I6SW-6.5%22-Subwoofer.html)

I had the JL 10 in a ported box in the back of the hatch with a full interior. Even with the windows open there was too much sound pressure.

I bet you could even kick my butt so I installed it myself. I used to go to school in N Dartmouth, let me know.

The lunatic in me is curious to know if you know how much it weighs. Rofl, 7 lbs.

Now I now why, why? gets head-each right?

(Bohemian Rhapsody, Keane, queen, garbage, etc.)


That's ok, I'll show my car to why? on Friday, I hope he likes the little that can! (i6sw) and no I don't know how much it weights sorry? not much I guess?

I'll bring other 2 big brothers too (IDQ12 one of the best SQ subs I've seen it just doesn't fit where the i6sw does, and a Bazooka just to play around)

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/IDQ/I6SW/cdbdc241.jpg

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/IDQ/I6SW/0df6c4e4.jpg


D.


.

[derickveliz2]

Even when I turned down the sub through the h/u, and the gain on the amp it still gave me a headache. So annoying.

Mmm, are you still driving without rear seats?

I'm sure that would give me a head-ache too!

I'm going to have to take you for a ride!

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/2511/dscf0803v.jpg

D.

[sqcomp]

Completely re aimed my front stage. Changed the crossover points and slopes. Now to get the pillars and kicks redone before June.

[derickveliz2]

Completely re aimed my front stage. Changed the crossover points and slopes. Now to get the pillars and kicks redone before June.

Tweeters or Mids?

D.

[sqcomp]

Yes to both. :)

It amazes me sometimes how far we come and yet how circular things are. I'm hearing that the tweeters aimed slightly into the glass are just a big winner for me. The issue I was having on the all pillar setup was left side width. With the mid below in the kick I have more width on that left side.

I'll have I e-mail you the camera shots of the placement where it sounded the best for me.

[derickveliz2]

Yes to both. :)

It amazes me sometimes how far we come and yet how circular things are. I'm hearing that the tweeters aimed slightly into the glass are just a big winner for me. The issue I was having on the all pillar setup was left side width. With the mid below in the kick I have more width on that left side.

I'll have I e-mail you the camera shots of the placement where it sounded the best for me.


Yes! I'v been there! with tweeters it's hard with all the reflection either avoid them or play with them, my tweeters are kind of aiming towards the windshield.

For the Mid down on the left, I agree. Gives me more width that the a-pillar install and that's why I did the extra mile cutting the metal to push it as much as possible physically it's my speaker that sits farther to the left, both mids are off-axis but the left one has a slightly angle so if you see them from the pilots position they look almost to the same angle towards the listener.

My theory is that this way both drivers would give me the same off-axis response. I may be far away from a pro-install, but man sounds good!


BTW... I missed Why? for a "show off" we re-schedule for next week. That gives me time to start tuning each side individually like I stated a few posts above. Wish me luck. Will be waiting for that email, I'm curious to see how you end up aiming your mids and tweets now.

D.

[sqcomp]

One of the challenges now is to find out what kind of plastic is used to make the a-pillars. I can't find an identifying mark on the back of either of my pillar sets...

Anyone have an idea? I'm hoping it's ABS.

This will help me figure out what I can use to meld plastic to plastic with...to make a new a-pillar entirely out of plastic.

[packetrace]

Someone already told me it was abs plastic...

[sqcomp]

If this is true then I'm set! I just became very excited. This means I already have experience with "cold molding" this type of plastic. Recall my conversion of the 2 DIN bezel into a 1 DIN for the P-01? *rubbing hands together*

This is very good!

...whoops...

I don't think I can stand up now! :P

[packetrace]

But verify to be sure but I remember someone told me this..:)

[sqcomp]

To update...I tore up the a-pillars:

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0496.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0498.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0491.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0492.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0493.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0501.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0502.jpg

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/IMG_0499.jpg

I know...it's rough looking...but it'll get there. It's all ABS so that means I can fill, shape, and mold with more ABS. Notice the ABS tube? It's already a perfect radius. You can presume what I'll be doing with that.

[derickveliz2]

Wow! that's nice, I can see how you are using the reflections of the windshield in your favor... that's what I call when you work with your enemy instead of fight it! (Spanish translation)

D.

[sqcomp]

It came down to the center image. I was getting some funky phasing issues being on axis. I spent about 6 hours moving each set of speakers around, muting all the others, and searching for the center image. I found it. It turns out to be along the same aiming I had in my first iteration last year.

That's why I mentioned it coming full circle. The biggest difference is in the separation of the mids and tweeters. Still, even in the mids I have similar aiming as when they were in the pillars.

Some things are simply strange to me. I need to get this rocking. I have a USACi show on the 27th of May and on the 3rd of June. Then it's planning for a show at Streamline later in the year. D, I want to send you my ID8 in the enclosure I made for my wife's truck. I'm telling you, you'd LOVE the response from this little thing. This little thing is accurate...and downfiring?! It loads off the floor of the car and feels like you've got bass shakers in your seat without ANY slop whatsoever.

[derickveliz2]

D, I want to send you my ID8 in the enclosure I made for my wife's truck. I'm telling you, you'd LOVE the response from this little thing. This little thing is accurate...and downfiring?! It loads off the floor of the car and feels like you've got bass shakers in your seat without ANY slop whatsoever.

I'm sure the i6sw will give your ID8 some thing to talk about!

I just can't believe it's just a 6.5 inch woofer what I have.

D.

[talnlnky]

It came down to the center image. I was getting some funky phasing issues being on axis. I spent about 6 hours moving each set of speakers around, muting all the others, and searching for the center image. I found it. It turns out to be along the same aiming I had in my first iteration last year.

Good to know, tweet install is next up for my car... Today I just finished getting rid of my dash rattle. Its amazing how much of a difference .5sq ft of ensolite foam + .5sq ft of mat, + about 20" of electrical tape can do. It actually wasn't that hard getting dash off, once I realized I forgot the two bolts securing the airbag.

I know one thing, my tweet install is going to be much simplier than yours, and also look way more ghetto... but thats ok.

[sqcomp]

The dash pad is relatively easy to remove.

It's good seeing you here again! How's life treating you?

As for how things look, as you noticed by the pictures, I've been messing with bonding ABS. Mine most certainly look terrible now. But given a couple sessions at the shop, these pillars will turn out beautifully.

[derickveliz2]

ooh, didn't realize the 16sw was a 6.5. That could work for me.

I bet you could even kick my butt so I installed it myself. I used to go to school in N Dartmouth, let me know.


Why? would you like to meet for lunch tomorrow?

D.

[_S7V7N_]

Taln nice to see you post man ! Long time no see.

[derickveliz2]

Taln nice to see you post man ! Long time no see.

That's true Taln, where have you been! (O:

D.

[talnlnky]

That's true Taln, where have you been! (O:

D.

work 4 tens, take care of the kid on the 5th day while mom is at work, and I generally have trouble moderating my hobbies, so for the sake of my family, i cut back on 97% of my computer usage.

The family is out of town until saturday though, so thats why i started doing install work again, and have time to post on here.

Good news tho.... Got a new laptop, and now my box building software is up and working again, so I can model sub boxes again.

[derickveliz2]

I did go back to the area under the wipers..., and found out that water drainage is working ok, but the heat from the headers it's making the MLV to change shape... and a couple pieces of Mat came off, I'm assuming the change in temperatures makes the adhesion loose strength.

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Yaris%20Deadening/1-DSC_6001.jpg

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Yaris%20Deadening/6-DSC_6012.jpg

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Yaris%20Deadening/2-DSC_6004.jpg



Ready to add a layer of "heat barrier"

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Yaris%20Deadening/3-DSC_6006.jpg



Overlapping this material to get extra layers

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Yaris%20Deadening/4-DSC_6008.jpg


MLV behind wipers mechanism... What a difference! specially on rainy days. LOL

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Yaris%20Deadening/5-DSC_6010.jpg



http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Yaris%20Deadening/6-DSC_6012.jpg


Over exposed picture showing air intake on the left side "that little triangle there"

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Yaris%20Deadening/7-DSC_6013.jpg

D.

.

[derickveliz2]

Thanks! I got it.

now lets get to learn and work... what do you think about these:

"When you are satisfied with the tonality of the system, it is time to start adjusting the left and right channels separately. These adjustments should not affect the tonality, but improve on the imaging and soundstaging. Using the Autosound 2000 Test CD 102 or 103 “My Disk” listen to the individual frequency pink noise tracks. (Test CD103 has the tracks arranged in an easier configuration.) Each frequency band should sound like it is coming from the center of the soundstage. If one band is off to one side, then use each band’s left and right eq controls as a balance control. This is very similar to the head unit’s balance control, only now you are balancing each frequency band by itself. For example if 200 Hz seems to be shifted to the left of center, lower the left 200 Hz band and raise the right 200 Hz band one dB at a time until the band is centered. If a frequency is shifted to the right, lower the band’s right channel and raise the left channel in small amounts." from a DIYMA member.

and this one....


"I must say that all I did was burn a CD that contained 0db tones that matched each one of the 31 bands on my EQ. Then I sat in my car for about 10 minutes and played each tone starting low and going up high. I kept my head perfectly still in the position I would normally drive down the road in.

Then I played each tone and adjusted the R and L EQ (graphic) and just played with cutting the R and then boosting the L and vice versa until I felt the sound was centered. Some bands needed up to +/- 3db and others needed no adjustment at all from what I could hear. And some bands I couldn't honestly resolve.

When I was done, I looked at my EQ and it was a MESS! LOL. Flipping back and forth between L and R yielded no pattern or symmetry at all. I thought, no possible way is this going to sound good. So I put in my Audiophile Female Vocal CD and cranked it up.

WELL SLAP MY A... AND CALL ME CHARLIE!! If Rebecca Pidgeon was 3 feet away from me she was a mile! It honestly felt like I had moved back in my seat, but my head had stayed in the same place the whole time. I estimate my stage moved 3" up and about 1 foot away...practially eliminating the windshield all together. I thought my stage was good before, but I damn near greased my shorts.

And the focus! Oh the focus...like I've never heard. Like scary real! Apparently sound recordings are done in actuall rooms, because it sounds like the singer is contained in a space, rather than just singing into a microphone" ... from another DIYMA member even though he has been banned :iono:

D.

.


OK, I did it! (first attempt)

I couldn't test it with normal volume because I was in the garage while the rest of the family was sleeping, so tomorrow I'll try it "out loud"

But from what I could hear at very low volume is... WOW!


I started with my EQ "Flat" and work my way around every tone, some where to the right others to the left and others right on center. My EQ graph end up like crazi!!! I'll get pictures tomorrow (well later today).

Lets see what Why? thinks about it. We are meeting for lunch, but I think he is only interested in the little i6SW and not in front stage or SQ.

Back to tuning Left and right EQ I must say... there is so much to learn out there. And amazes me every time I get positive results.

D.

[why?]

heh, all about sq. The little sub is amazing, but your system really puts in perspective having a fully functional well working group of high end speakers with a head unit with all the toys to make them shine.

In all the years of being around people that call themselves audiophiles I've never heard a system that literally lets you "see," "feel," and hear exactly where a sound comes from as well and exact as your system does.

It was like going to see a band in a small coffee shop, but for every type of music. I don't know how many artists even thought of systems that sound like this, but listening to it you know the lead singer is in one place, the background singers are in another and the instruments are coming at you from wherever they are.

Every recording was almost intimate, and the music separated itself depending on where it was and what it was doing. Hearing is believing.

Not to mention the sound literally came from the dash, yet the main speakers were in the kick panels and only two little tweeters were up top.

As weird as it is to say, the quality being amazing was almost secondary. I'm used to that. Derick's system sounds just as good as a 5.1 home system. I've had the pleasure of really being able to listen to many, from cheap ones to really high end expensive ones, and for sound quality Derick's car is just as good as any of them.

The only thing that I would do differently is have the sound be more surround. Derick's system is set up to be all up front, literally like the musicians are in mini playing on the dash. And of course with great recordings it sounds so much better than going to see live music.

I love that this system proves you don't need insane volume to have a top notch system. Derick really has built a system that should inspire everyone.

Oh, and then the quiet. Now if you look through the thread on my car you'll see I've pretty much removed everything. Rear seats, seatbelts, the entire cargo area, spare tire, and a few of the plastic side moldings are all gone. I get to here the gas splashing around, every little thing that hits the bottom of the car, and every single little noise the car itself makes. It also takes very little audio volume to fill my car.

Derick's car is the exact opposite. Amazingly quiet. From the windshield wipers, the blower motor for the air, and then almost zero road noise. We took a short drive on the highways and his car is easily lexus quality quiet. And he still gets 43 mpg.

[sqcomp]

Welcome to the world of sound quality! :)

I should show this to Scott...

[derickveliz2]

heh, all about sq.

Every recording was almost intimate, and the music separated itself depending on where it was and what it was doing. Hearing is believing.

I love that this system proves you don't need insane volume to have a top notch system. Derick really has built a system that should inspire everyone.

Amazingly quiet. From the windshield wipers, the blower motor for the air, and then almost zero road noise. We took a short drive on the highways and his car is easily lexus quality quiet. And he still gets 43 mpg.

Like sqcomp says ... Welcome! to the SQ world!

Yes! we got together with why? today at lunch time, great guy, loves his Yaris, good friend!
and actually why? is a BIG GUY! I even asked him to go on the passengers side and he didn't bother the i6sw enclosure, "quiet comfortable" he said!

Thanks why? !

I appreciate your kind words and as far of inspiration...

When ever you need to get you going (wiring, installing, tips and tricks) just let me know and we'll work on it! you know at least once a week I'm in the area. Let's do a Yaris meet! I know CTScott asked me once to get together in a meet with other Yaris enthusiasts!

Thanks again :thumbsup:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-QoGFPkYUk6I/T6SgM-9TgoI/AAAAAAAAn_o/HrKTmoDn6LQ/s1056/Yaris+195.jpg
D.

[derickveliz2]

Welcome to the world of sound quality! :)

I should show this to Scott...

I think you should, I think why? wouldn't mind.

D.

[sqcomp]

Done. This testimonial is on a forum specifically for such topics.

Derick...we really need to get you into an L3v2 or an L4v2 to replace that ML-70...

[why?]

heh, that pic is awesome.

I actually signed up to the hat forums too. Figured that was the best place to see if I could get one used. Although there aren't any dealers anywhere near me, probably aren't any in new england either, heh maybe I should look for someone to build the perfect sub box for it too.

Who knows, my first problem is money. I have something to aspire to now.

although running 400 watts through that sub and you'd never know it. Totally crazy.

[derickveliz2]

heh, that pic is awesome.

I actually signed up to the hat forums too. Figured that was the best place to see if I could get one used. Although there aren't any dealers anywhere near me, probably aren't any in new england either, heh maybe I should look for someone to build the perfect sub box for it too.

Who knows, my first problem is money. I have something to aspire to now.

although running 400 watts through that sub and you'd never know it. Totally crazy.


I got my L6s, and L1v2 at DIYMA (NIB) and at a good price. Used come very often and at a really good price!

D.

[derickveliz2]

OK, I did it! (first attempt)
I started with my EQ "Flat" and work my way around every tone, some where to the right others to the left and others right on center. My EQ graph end up like crazi!!! I'll get pictures tomorrow (well later today).
D.

This is what Why? got to hear...

New X-Over points:

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/4-DSC_6024.jpg


Left side EQ:

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/3-DSC_6022.jpg


Right side EQ:

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/2-DSC_6021.jpg


EQ combined Left & Right:

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/derickveliz/Front%20Stage/1-DSC_6020.jpg


D.


.

[derickveliz2]

This morning I went to see the ophthalmologist or what ever they call him, after some testing with machines, sealed acoustically rooms, funny noises, rising my hand... I was told that every thing looks fine, I'm in the "normal" side of the graphic, I do within the normal limits I have a small deep around 4kHz.

I guess I can go back tuning now, even though when I play a 16kHz tone I can barely hear it, 20kHz don't ask. Jeje

D.

[TOLMACH]

This morning I went to see the ophthalmologist or what ever they call him, after some testing with machines, sealed acoustically rooms, funny noises, rising my hand... I was told that every thing looks fine, I'm in the "normal" side of the graphic, I do within the normal limits I have a small deep around 4kHz.

I guess I can go back tuning now, even though when I play a 16kHz tone I can barely hear it, 20kHz don't ask. Jeje

D.

Lots of midbass drivers have some type of parasitic resonance around 4-5 khz, so you may consider yourself lucky )) another way to use your unique 4 khz feature is to make it a midrange / tweeter crossover point - you will get nice and smooth blending ))

[patm]

A hearing test provides an evaluation of the sensitivity of a person's sense of hearing and is most often performed by an audiologist

[sqcomp]

^ I know that one. I've had two since I came back from Iraq.

[derickveliz2]

Lots of midbass drivers have some type of parasitic resonance around 4-5 khz, so you may consider yourself lucky )) another way to use your unique 4 khz feature is to make it a midrange / tweeter crossover point - you will get nice and smooth blending ))

Tol, thanks for positive response, I'm very lucky Jeje.

D.

[derickveliz2]

"another way to use your unique 4 khz feature is to make it a midrange / tweeter crossover point - you will get nice and smooth blending ))" Tol, thanks for positive response, I'm very lucky Jeje.

D.

But I'm not going to x-over in the 4kHz area just because of me, that would take away my "Point Source" feature and I rather keep the width of my stage, if I x-over my tweeters at 4kHz (HPF) my stage looses width because my tweeters are closer to each other compare to the Mids.

D.

[derickveliz2]

A hearing test provides an evaluation of the sensitivity of a person's sense of hearing and is most often performed by an audiologist

Hey!!!
that's what it says in the report! "Examining Audiologist"


D.

[sqcomp]

Here's something to wake some of us up...

http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww203/sqcomp/2007%20Toyota%20Yaris%20S/10615705.jpg

Notice these caps? It behooves one to run these inline with a set of tweeters if you value your investment. This measure of caps will essentially create a 6 dB slope at 1500 Hertz to protect the tweeters from turn on/off pops and other "feedback" that can damage tweeters. I'll have this cap combination soldered with the quick disconnect couplers I have hanging around for serviceability, then "wrapped" in black heat shrink. This will then be put inline just after the outputs from the amplifier.

[TOLMACH]

^SQ, I am glad to see that you are finally moving in the right @pure passive@ direction )))))

Pls also keep in mind this will also shift your phase another 90 degrees and will increase overall filter order (you now have el crossover engaged in your HU plus this cap )

[TOLMACH]

Another thought - you can also use lower value for your capacitors - like for instance around 14-15 (couple in parrallel for a total) which is roughly 2800 hz in 4 ohms @6db/oct - as a result- you get better protection (which is still too low to mess with your electronic x-over) and would save you some bucks

[derickveliz2]

Done. This testimonial is on a forum specifically for such topics.

Derick...we really need to get you into an L3v2 or an L4v2 to replace that ML-70...

I was trying to find it but no luck, could you PM me a link please?

Thanks

D.

[sqcomp]

TOLM-The ONLY reason I'm using these capacitors is for tweeter protection. They help protect the tweeter from amplifier turn on/off DC transient pops (which occur after the active crossover), and they help protect against accidental tuning mistakes. That is all. I refuse to be taken captive by a crossover network that does not have any flexibility and is as big as a tank. The less parts the better.

As for the phase inversion and slope adjustability, I have no issues. I can flip phase at the push of a button...on several points of active processing.

Don't think for one second that at any time there will be a passive two or three way crossover hulking anywhere in this vehicle. While I can make it pretty, I still know I'm looking at a dinosaur.

To remind you, none of the SQ world champions at INAC used passive crossovers that I noticed. There's a reason for that.

*note - this response might sound harsh. It isn't. I'm at such a place where passive crossovers are a hindrance and a step backwards. I react a certain way when people tell me to give up flexibility and adjustability for convinience.

@ Derick - the post was placed on a private Hybrid Audio forum only accessible to Team Hybrids members. *hint hint* put in an application as soon as you rid yourself of the ML-70.